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Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #156524
10/07/08 10:45 AM
10/07/08 10:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
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mikekrantz Offline
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The boats were not there for the W1000 in 2003, and the race was not held. I know that for a fact, I was one of the paid entries for the race that didn't happen. David and I did go on to race the T500 that year in it's place. The 2002 W1000 was the last W1000 held.

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Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: mikekrantz] #156525
10/07/08 11:50 AM
10/07/08 11:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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Wouter you are such a jackass, you have no idea of how many HT's there are in the US.

Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: bvining] #156526
10/07/08 12:06 PM
10/07/08 12:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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39 documented sail numbers and boat owners.

REGULAR MEMBER BROWNING GALE ANNAPOLIS MD USA-1
REGULAR MEMBER OLIVER W.F. VA BEACH VA USA-3
REGULAR MEMBER DIAMOND JAMIE COLUMBUS OH USA-4
REGULAR MEMBER NEWKIRK KIRK PENSACOLA FL USA-5
REGULAR MEMBER BROWN CHRIS LABONON PA USA-6
REGULAR MEMBER SMYTH RANDY FT WALTON BCH FL USA-7
REGULAR MEMBER COGAN PETER DARIEN CT USA-8
REGULAR MEMBER LYTLE BOB JACKSONVILLE FL USA-9
REGULAR MEMBER MARSHACK KEN FAIRVIEW OR USA-10
REGULAR MEMBER SNEED JASON DESTIN FL USA-11
REGULAR MEMBER CUNNINGHAM DAVID CHICAGO IL USA-12
REGULAR MEMBER STOOKEY HUNT PORTSMOUTH RI USA-14
REGULAR MEMBER PICHE STEVE AUSTIN TX USA-15
REGULAR MEMBER LAMBERT BRIAN FT WALTON BCH FL USA-16
REGULAR MEMBER NOVAKOFF JIM HOUSTON TX USA-17
REGULAR MEMBER KIRBY DOUG ANNAPOLIS MD USA-18
REGULAR MEMBER BECKWITH TIFFANY SAN ANTONIO TX USA-20
REGULAR MEMBER LIVINGSTON KIRK HOUSTON TX USA-21
REGULAR MEMBER VINING BILL WALLINGFORD CT USA-22
REGULAR MEMBER COMUNALE AMANDA AKRON OH USA-23
REGULAR MEMBER KRANTZ MICHAEL FLOWERY BRANCH GA USA-24
REGULAR MEMBER STUART BERND OK USA-25
REGULAR MEMBER PETERS JERRY RICHMOND VA USA-26
REGULAR MEMBER SUNNUCKS WILLIAM UK USA-27
REGULAR MEMBER HERTZ DAVID EMPORIA VA USA-28
REGULAR MEMBER BOYLE STEPHEN CHARLOTTE NC USA-29
REGULAR MEMBER CONFIDENTIAL USA-30
REGULAR MEMBER SONNAKLAR JAY MIAMI FL USA-31
REGULAR MEMBER TEYSSIER CARL SAN DIEGO CA USA-32
REGULAR MEMBER MOORE FRANK PITTSBURG PA USA-33
REGULAR MEMBER GONZALAS TOMMY BRISTOL RI USA-34
REGULAR MEMBER CONFIDENTIAL (OWNED BY SAME PERSON AS USA-30) USA-35
REGULAR MEMBER JOHNSTONE PETER NEWPORT RI USA-45
REGULAR MEMBER MELLO DENNIS CT USA-70
REGULAR MEMBER BASNIGHT JIM CHESAPEAKE VA USA-71
REGULAR MEMBER PIGGIN HUGH FT LAUDERDALE FL USA-72
REGULAR MEMBER SINCLAIR JAMES NY NY USA-73

Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: Wouter] #156527
10/07/08 12:11 PM
10/07/08 12:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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Quote
I put the real number of imported boats much closer to 25.


There are at least 39 boats in the US.

Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: bvining] #156528
10/07/08 12:21 PM
10/07/08 12:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Hi Bill -

I don't mean to step into this mess and I don't have any sort of beef with the class. I think, though, that at least one of the owners on your list never actually got a boat, though he paid for one. Maybe the class list isn't 100% accurate? Not trying to stir up trouble - in fact, I'm not really sure why Wouter cares...


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: John Williams] #156529
10/07/08 12:32 PM
10/07/08 12:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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Thanks for pointing that out John. I didnt create that list, and I'm not sure exactly where it came from, it probably came from WF.

But the question that was being debated was "how many HT's are there in the US." I believe the number is at least 39, and its possible that its close the number that Catfan quoted.

Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: bvining] #156530
10/07/08 03:08 PM
10/07/08 03:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Quote
Wouter you are such a jackass, you have no idea of how many HT's there are in the US.


YYYAAAAAAYYYYYYYY BILL!!!!!


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: bvining] #156531
10/07/08 03:47 PM
10/07/08 03:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

REGULAR MEMBER SUNNUCKS WILLIAM UK USA-27



Will Sunnucks owns a HT ?

Is that the same Will Sunnucks that is a UK sailor that came over for the Tybee 500, "chartered" a HT and afterwards said it was of the worst boats to do distance races on and would never do so again ?

Smyth never owned his own boat; I'm sure that he has his own sailnumber but the boat is probably now recycled into a new owner and new sailnumber.

That and other stuff.

It is just like Wall Street Finance, **** the books is not hard, coming up with concrete results to proof these numbers when the game is up is the hard part. Like the other poster says, there are some Worrell crews still waiting for the delivery of their boat.

Personally, I find it very strange that 50 sailors of the fame of Peter Cogan, Randy Smyth, Marshack, Lambert, Mike Krantz and Jay Sonneklar would (still) own a HT and be a class member for the last 5 years AND NEVER RACE IT. We do see them regulary on A-cats, F18's and I-20's though.

Come to think of it, for 50 boats sold in the USA we do see surprisingly little of them pop up in race results.

But hey ! Don't take my word for it. Believe what you want to believe.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: bvining] #156532
10/07/08 03:51 PM
10/07/08 03:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe
Bill,

Through my network of contacts which does indeed included many class organisors and builders alike I learned of legal dealings specifying the number of boats (of different make) delivered and of amounts of money left unpaid.

The number is much closer to 25 then 50. Sorry.

I won't specify or proof anything beyond this point as that will serve no purpose.

The main point of my postings was that one particular chain of sources is pretty unreliable. Hell, I was beating that message home as early as 2001 when the whole HT debacle began.

Many would like to think that I'm unreliable, wise people'll know better by now.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 10/07/08 03:55 PM.
Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: Wouter] #156533
10/07/08 04:01 PM
10/07/08 04:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Wouter.

The boat is/was William's.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Wouter] #156534
10/07/08 04:17 PM
10/07/08 04:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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tami  Offline
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Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
Smyth DID own his own boat.

Here's a piccie of him racing it:
[Linked Image]

It now belongs to Tommy Granger.

I know of at least three, not counting the ex-Smyth boat, in the central Gulf (LA/MS/AL).

Voutah, do please let it go...

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: tami] #156535
10/07/08 04:37 PM
10/07/08 04:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Tami's right, Wout. Let it go. There simply isn't any value in being right or wrong on this one, and the feelings (five years ago or not) are still raw. Ease up, pick another topic.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
settle down. [Re: John Williams] #156536
10/07/08 06:07 PM
10/07/08 06:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Northfield Mn
There is almost nobody racing the FXone, I know one dealer sold 10 of them last year, and the Hobie U.S. warehouse seems to be always out of them. Not the same thing, but alot of people buy boats to sail recreationally that don't really make that great of a rec boat.

Re: settle down. [Re: Karl_Brogger] #156537
10/07/08 06:10 PM
10/07/08 06:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 19
U
USA197 Offline
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USA197  Offline
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U

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 19
Not that anyone cares, but Ken Marshack did buy a Bimare 18HT. I assembled it with him in Virginia Beach. He brought it home to Oregon, and sold it used to Jon Nilan from the Seattle area. He showed up to a few regattas and raced it as an A cat (Jon weighs approximately 350 pounds and we let him have fun with us). He hasn't raced it in the last two years that I know of. I saw him two weeks ago and he was close to selling the boat to somebody from the Seattle area.

Eric Marshack

Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: bvining] #156538
10/07/08 08:35 PM
10/07/08 08:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 63
jdaf31r Offline
journeyman
jdaf31r  Offline
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Posts: 63
REGULAR MEMBER LAMBERT BRIAN FT WALTON BCH FL USA-16

USA 16 owned now by Jon Alvord in NH. I don't race it, just use it for weekly sailing on a 3milex1/4 mile lake. Pretty pathetic use for it but it is so fun for one person in 15kt's!

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: John Williams] #156539
10/08/08 03:28 AM
10/08/08 03:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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No feelings,

I'm just conveying what I know.

But I have no interest in continueing a fight. Believe all you guys want. I for one have very serious doubts that a number close to 50 was ever shipped to the USA.

That will be all.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: Wouter] #156540
10/08/08 07:11 AM
10/08/08 07:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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Atlanta
Quote
I'm just conveying what I know.


Wouter, you dont know dick, you are making assumptions based on you were able to see in race results. That is the most arrogant and ridiculous thing you've ever said.

And you have no idea who owned what and when.

Since that list was compiled, most of those owners have sold there boats, and the new owners dont race them, and I've lost track of who owns them now.

Re: Where have all the 18HTs gone? [Re: Wouter] #156541
10/08/08 07:25 AM
10/08/08 07:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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Quote
Personally, I find it very strange that 50 sailors of the fame of Peter Cogan, Randy Smyth, Marshack, Lambert, Mike Krantz and Jay Sonneklar would (still) own a HT and be a class member for the last 5 years AND NEVER RACE IT


Ok, Wouter, I will go slow for you here.

1. That list is OLD.
2. The boats have been RESOLD.
3. The boats didnt evaporate, they still exist and are most likely still in the USA.
4. The class hasnt had any official US business in the last 4 years.
5. You are still a jackass.

Obviously the names on that list are not current HT class members. I posted it as a point of reference on how many HT's there are (where) in the US at a point in time.

Re: G.Zeus, y'all! [Re: bvining] #156542
10/08/08 07:32 AM
10/08/08 07:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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_flatlander_  Offline
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Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
Quote
Since that list was compiled, most of those owners have sold there boats, and the new owners dont race them, and I've lost track of who owns them now.
Stu told me he recently sold #25 to a Tulsa local who "didn't have a clue what he was getting in to" and reminisced of "the fastest boat he's ever sailed".


John H16, H14
What Happened to.......... [Re: ejpoulsen] #156543
10/08/08 07:53 AM
10/08/08 07:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 138
CraigO Offline
member
CraigO  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 138
WF Oliver, after the Worrell thing, and growing the class he seemed to disappear. Does he still sail??

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