| Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control! #157316 10/16/08 04:17 PM 10/16/08 04:17 PM |
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 756 Newport, RI wildtsail OP
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Posts: 756 Newport, RI | I hate to break bad news again but I am really getting frustrated by how Performance Catamarans is coming up with their pricing. While all this pricing is in regard to the Nacra 20 there must be parts that are affecting F17s, F18s, and etc. It's not just the 200% increase in the masts.. it's all across the product line. I have 3 instances in which I went to make large purchases at one point in the year, held off on the purchase, went back to make the purchase at a later date to find out the price had jumped by several hundred dollars. In all circumstances I contacted 2-3 dealers to confirm this pricing. Each quoted me a price and then contacted me later to let me know that a new pricelist had just come out to make the item even more.
-New jib) I purchased a new jib in May for approximately $570. It has now jumped up to over $800.
-New spinnaker) I was quoted $1,050 in May. I ended up purchasing it in August when the price ended up being close to $1,500.
-Self tacker) I am in the process of purchasing a new self tacker. I have been told numerous prices. One price was $399 with the line kit at $118. The next day I was contacted and told the new pricelist said $530 with the line kit at $420. This is completely ridiculous! Working in the industry, I could piece together this line kit for $100-$150 and sell it for $200-$250. $420 is completely unjustified unless it is gold plated blocks!
-New mast) I'm not purchasing one, but you all know about the recent price of around $11,000 when it was $5,600 in May.
I work for a sailboat dealer which is owned by and adjacent to the manufacturer. We and all of our dealers get price increases at the beginning of the year and that's it. 4-5 times over the course of several months is ludicrous. And it’s not like they are sending them lists with the outlines changed! They are sending them many pages of pricing and the dealer is on their own to figure out what has changed. There is no way Performance should expect their dealers to be able to function with this happening. It is unfair to the dealers and the customers.
I am in no way blaming the dealers. They are just trying to make a living. Apparently the dealers have been complaining to Performance with no results.
I am blaming Performance Catamarans for this. If anyone out there can justify any of these price increases please explain to me on this forum or private message me.
If we want any change or the prices to stop inflating we need to do something about this!
That being said, I don’t believe going our own route and leaving the factory out of class decisions is the correct path as without factory support the class would suffer tremendously.
Does anyone else have experience with a pricing fiasco? Please share and maybe we can bring it to the attention of Performance Catamarans.
-Todd Riccardi
| | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: Robi]
#157321 10/16/08 04:51 PM 10/16/08 04:51 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | "Once the Tybee migrates to F18 the DBS will welcome the N20 into its ranks."
One needs to finish it first.
Looks like the time may be quickly approaching for a Formula N-20 class. The pricing is definitely ludicrous and the only thing worse is the wait.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#157330 10/16/08 05:42 PM 10/16/08 05:42 PM |
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 266 UK Cheshirecatman
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Posts: 266 UK | Looks like the time may be quickly approaching for a Formula N-20 class.
Am I missing something here? Isn't it an iF20 boat anyway? Sail it as such and save a bundle. Cheshirecatman | | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#157340 10/16/08 06:28 PM 10/16/08 06:28 PM |
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 266 UK Cheshirecatman
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Posts: 266 UK | Nope. It doesn't fit in the F20 box rule. The Inter 20 was introduced as an if20 boat. Is it just the oversize main(iF20=18sq m) takes the Nacra 20 one design outside the rule? Cheshirecatman | | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: Cheshirecatman]
#157358 10/16/08 08:13 PM 10/16/08 08:13 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | I believe that is it. Not sure on weight, but I can't imagine it would be under any minimum. My thought on the Formula Inter 20 class would be , allow aluminum masts if wanted and open up the sails to any maker.Platform stays the same with the exception of extrusions (Spin pole and boom) which you get killed on the price and then again for the shipping.Obviously you'd need guidelines. I have talked to Jack about the costs and he had reasons but didn't seem to have any solutions. And Tad those prices are correct, I was quoted that high and higher. INTER -20 MAIN 1 1,754.14 I-20 BATTENED JIB 1 705.79 INTER -20 FURLING JIB 1 662.11 N-20 (3 HOLE) SPINNAKER - MIDPOLE 1 1,435.61 SPINNAKER I-20 2 HOLE - ENDPOLE 1 1,356.41 Note how expensive that extra grommet on the spin is.I was also told I should count on a 3 month lead time, because the focus is on sending stuff to Europe.
I LOVE the boat,as most of you know, and am a diehard supporter of it. But this mess is hard to take. I think some discussion on this, from those it pertains to(i.e. I-20 owners), would be good. Todd p.s. Tad I'm midgetless myself. Plus I like the extra 2 feet.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: wildtsail]
#157362 10/16/08 08:28 PM 10/16/08 08:28 PM |
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
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Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine | well, as far as the gas prices are concerned, oil dropped below $70/barrel today so we might be seeing some relief there... I bought my new main and spin after my disasterous debacle and nightmare that was Tradewinds 2007. Purchased 6 weeks prior to Spring Fever and I had to get the main drop shipped to Nigel's house so I had it for the regatta :P The question is when and where? We haven't had any regattas with a majority of the class in attendance.
Not only that, but the class association is non-existent as far as I can tell. I don't know who to even send money to or who to contact about concerns with the class. AFAIK Jack is our class president. | | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: wildtsail]
#157366 10/16/08 09:28 PM 10/16/08 09:28 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | As it stands around here, mid-east, there's really no class to speak of. Sometimes enough boats show to make a class. I don't see how opening it could hurt the "class" as long as parameters are laid out to keep it from becoming an arms race. Opening the sail to different makers would increase quality and lower the price.If you weren't comfortable with another sailmaker you use Skips i.e. the factory sail. Size stays the same.No carbon added anywhere it all ready isn't.No performance enhancing mods. As it is we have 2 self tackers,2 booms, 3 styles of rudders, sails of many dimensions,3 spin pole combos,2 different style jibs,and 2 different style tramps,off the top of my head. We aren't exactly a one design even though we are. This isn't necessarily something I want to do but seems it may be the only way to make it affordable/viable which would keep the class going instead of kill it. I don't see PC lowering their prices ever, even if they could. If the peeps is buyin' why drop the price. For them it's good business,For us it's called a rock and a hard place. Todd
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#157371 10/16/08 09:38 PM 10/16/08 09:38 PM |
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
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Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine | If the peeps is buyin' why drop the price. See Todd, I don't think that boats are an inelastic commodity. People aren't going to dish out $25k for a Nacra 20 when they can get an infusion for almost half that. | | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: PTP]
#157394 10/17/08 03:15 AM 10/17/08 03:15 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 285 Catfan
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Posts: 285 | I suspect that the reason behind prices' escalation of P.C. is the marketing strategy choosen by the new owner, the European company Nacra Europe (ex Jan de Boer), intended to make even the listing on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. Notwithstanding the huge devaluation of the USD vs EUR exchange rate the quotations of Nacra cats in Europe have not changed: the cheapest boat, the 460, is sold at EUR 8,950 (around EUR 7,600 ex VAT or USD 10,000), while the most expensive N20 is sold at EUR 21,480 (EUR 18,300 ex VAT or USD 24,500). As you see they are not far from the above mentioned US quotations | | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#157396 10/17/08 03:51 AM 10/17/08 03:51 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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I could just be that the I-20 market in Europe dried up. Nacra stepped out of the F20 class to form their own I-20 strickt SMOD class. I'm still not convinced this move was a wise one on their part. It killed the Hobie Fox which is probably a thing they thought advantagious (although the Fox was already very much on its knees) but from then onwards they had to support the class and market on their own. The French are not at all interested in 20 footers. The Germans never took to the F20 as other EU nations unlike UK and Netherlands. However both these nations are indeed gravitating strongly to F18; have been doing so for years. Especially after the F18 Worlds in NL a few years back. One can buy I-20's overhere secondhand for very attractive prices. Lots on offer only few takers; I doubt many new boats are sold. I think the US market has contracted for them as well.
All in all this may all just be a market development coming back to bite them.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: wildtsail]
#157397 10/17/08 03:55 AM 10/17/08 03:55 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
I always love it when the thread of an "arms race" and ludicrously rising SMOD prices are placed next to one another in one sentence.
Isn't it the whole idea of preventing an arms race (SMOD ?) to keep prices low ? How come that classes like a A's, 18HT's and F16's can put carbon masts on their platforms for 3000 and the SMOD for only 11.000 ?
In this situation what the hell is the advantage of a SMOD status ? I mean, to the sailor and class member of course. The advantage to the builder is obvious enough.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Performance Catamarans pricing... out of control!
[Re: Wouter]
#157413 10/17/08 07:53 AM 10/17/08 07:53 AM |
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,226 Atlanta bvining
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Posts: 1,226 Atlanta | How come that classes like a A's, 18HT's and F16's can put carbon masts on their platforms for 3000 and the SMOD for only 11.000 ?
Carbon has increased somewhat, the issue is also that the exchange rate has gone the wrong way for the US sailors, so any carbon part gets whacked twice if its made outside the US. You could easily make a 120 mast for $3k in the US, Forte has a Tornado teardrop mast mold and his price last year was $1100 for a 33 ft section. So even with inflation on carbon, I'm guessing the price is around $2k for a bare tube, no fittings. | | |
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