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Ok, so we got a seat at the table... #158644
10/30/08 01:05 AM
10/30/08 01:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
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John Williams  Offline OP
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Thanks to a lot of hard work, e-mails, and lobbying by cat sailors worldwide, we have a seat at the table next week at the ISAF meeting in Madrid, Spain. The new Multihull Commission will meet on Friday afternoon, November 7th. I will be there to represent the US. An agenda and mission are being developed, but since I'm your guy, tell me what you want to see set as priorities going forward. Don't limit yourself to the 2012 Games - think ahead and beyond. If 2012 (or the Games in general) is our only issue, we may not last long...

Seriously - let me know what you're thinking.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: John Williams] #158647
10/30/08 02:22 AM
10/30/08 02:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
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fin.  Offline
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F

Joined: Feb 2006
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"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Reinstate the Tornado.

Last edited by Tikipete; 10/30/08 02:23 AM.
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: fin.] #158648
10/30/08 02:34 AM
10/30/08 02:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Racing formats. It isn't all about mid-size windward returns. Cats are good for long distance races.

Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: ncik] #158655
10/30/08 03:35 AM
10/30/08 03:35 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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West coast of Norway
Start a process to get athlete representation with rights to vote into Council.
Disband the executive committee.
Today ISAF Council representatives are appointed through their respective MNAs. They are not elected by members. The representatives should be elected by the members. The distance from members to the politicians with blazers and white hats in Council is not sustainable.
One country one vote in Council.

Same number of boats/classes/medals for both sexes in the games.
Make sure most types of sailing is represented. Dinghy, windsurfer, keelboat, multi (I omit kite for now). See if there is room for foilers.
Start a process to get ice sailing into the winter games.

Start a process to have the rules simplified. 2 rules should do. Dont collide or you are both tossed and dont mouth off (Ok, so perhaps we need something about not crossing the starting line before the flag and so on).

Start a process evaluating the format for racing.
Start a process to get tracking more accessible for TV/spectators (like virtual spectator, but cheap and accessible for event organizers).


Dont think much of this will ever fly, but this is what I would like to see changed with ISAF.

Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #158659
10/30/08 04:39 AM
10/30/08 04:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Quote

Start a process to get ice sailing into the winter games



Or landyachting into the summer games. More nations have good landsailing spots then good waterfronts, especially third world nations. Iceyachting/landyachting is also alot easier to televise.

Classes to think about in landyachting, Blokart, Promo. Both are tightly controlled inexpensive classes. Promo is the best option in my opinion with speeds above 80 km/u and race-cars going for 3500-4500 Euro's.

I think it would be good for the multihull committee to profile itself as looking beyond their own direct interests (multihulls) as that would strengthen the position to include the multies next to the mono's as well. Inclusiveness to all !


I'm all onboard for :

{quote]
Start a process to get tracking more accessible for TV/spectators (like virtual spectator, but cheap and accessible for event organizers).
[/quote]


Also educate the committees mildly about the fact that SMOD isn't a dime less expensive or better then a well regulated formula setup. The boards are already formula, cats as good as. SMOD is actually more expensive to poorer nations as they can't locally produce !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #158679
10/30/08 07:54 AM
10/30/08 07:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 757
japan
erice Offline
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erice  Offline
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Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen

Start a process to get ice sailing into the winter games.



i'm living in nagano city, which held the 1998 winter games, and worked for cbs for 6months over the games period

there is no ice sailing nor ice sailing venues in so many countries that have held or want to hold the games that i think that might be very difficult...


eric e
1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158
2009 weta tri - 294
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: erice] #158688
10/30/08 08:25 AM
10/30/08 08:25 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Sure, but if one dont have visions, you dont make progress wink

Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #158701
10/30/08 10:15 AM
10/30/08 10:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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John,

first, good luck at the meeting. Great work on your part and the many others who have been involved with this effort. My #1 priority is still getting a multihull back into the Olympics. Beyond that, I think that there are many other issues that need to be addressed, but am not sure what can be addressed at this meeting.

First is the racing format and accessibility to the viewers. I am not saying that the iShares format would work in the Olympics, but as far as accessibility and excitement it seems to be working very well. Right now throughout the different classes there are different race courses and to the viewer that creates confusion to non-sailors. Standardize the race courses. Add a distance race into the format. Switch courses progressively through the games. Windward/leeward, add a reaching leg another day and so-on. Focus on media coverage. Get a worldwide push on youth development, not just in cat classes, but sailing in general. While, I will never make the Olympics, I would like to help in this effort. I like what the ITA is doing to change the perception of the class, but overall going to strict one-design is not going to really change the costs in the class all that much. Clear up the voting proccess so that what happened last November cannot happen again. Change in voting proceedures, building coalitions away from the vote, manipulating the outcome to your favor and so on. Get gender equality and adopt the five disciplines approach to the sport. Those are my views John. Again, good luck and let us know how we can best support your efforts. Thank you.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: John Williams] #158702
10/30/08 10:23 AM
10/30/08 10:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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John, you can tell them, Now that we have a seat, we have Multihuller's joining US Sailing once again. And where do I send my check to re-join, under the Multihull classification, if there is one? (Does the Golden Anchor still exist, and isn't that a strange name for multihulls, since we never carry anchors??)


Blade F16
#777
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: Timbo] #158713
10/30/08 10:59 AM
10/30/08 10:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline OP
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Long Beach, California


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: John Williams] #158715
10/30/08 11:16 AM
10/30/08 11:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by John Williams


John,

I joined as a regular member. How do I change to the Multihull list?


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: John Williams] #158724
10/30/08 11:45 AM
10/30/08 11:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Thanks JW, check's in the mail!

Hey, all you other peoples, I just noticed two things on the Multihull application posted above,

1. You save $10 over the regular US Sailing membership ($50 vs. 60)

2. For only $10 you can get a 1yr. subscription to Multihulls Magazing, normally about $21! If you havenot read Multihulls, it is a great magazine feturing mostly world wide cruising locations and large cruising cats, but also covers large multihull racing around the world, and also has some beach cat racing as well, like the F18 Archipalego Raid. It's all very good stuff, lots of pictures.

Last edited by Timbo; 10/30/08 11:52 AM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: Mugrace72] #158727
10/30/08 12:12 PM
10/30/08 12:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
ISAF needs to rethink the elite racing system.

The balanced 5 disiplines approach is a winner.

We need a gold cup of high profile regattas in windy venues that the elite olympic boats compete in. It needs to hire a marketing firm to elevate the personalities in the sport and coordinate with the regatta management at these events.

The second tier cats, F18's, A class and Hobie 16's. Could try to leverage these venues with events that mirror the Olympic boats and draw in these top sailors to add pizazz and interest in their events. ISAF should market these second tier classes as feeder classes for the big show. Fans like to follow their favorites as they climb the ranks and step up to the big leagues.

They should market the up and coming young guys who are attempting to make the olympic circuit.

The second tier classes could opt for an open and corinthian division if they need to preserve a balance between the two types of sailors and don't want to change their culture (Hobie 16's would come to mind) ... see the melges 24 NA's.

They need to insist that Olympic sailing countries support the elite and rank and file program with a real junior program in the 5 disiplines.

They need a ranking system for the elite level. The ranking system should score 8 gran prix type events that are marketed like a gran prix circuit. The ranking should be seperate from the one design class rank which is meaningless... You can't try to rank 200 Tornado sailors.




crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: Mark Schneider] #158752
10/30/08 03:52 PM
10/30/08 03:52 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
They need to insist that Olympic sailing countries support ........ a real junior program in the 5 disiplines.


This is an interesting thought, but how would it be achieved. Could youth representation at the youth worlds be a requirement for senior qualification to the Olympics? Would this introduce more youth to sailing or just rule out marginal countries?

Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: ] #158758
10/30/08 06:09 PM
10/30/08 06:09 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
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Replace Tornado with F18 for 2012 and after. Each Olympics choose a manufacturer and race one-design as in Alter Cup format. Rotate manufacturer each Olympics. Give JW a lifetime free rum drink card for all the work he's done.

Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: BrianK] #158761
10/30/08 06:33 PM
10/30/08 06:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Can I see your papers please. Oh wait, you have 1 more day. Carry on.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: ] #158765
10/30/08 07:22 PM
10/30/08 07:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Here is my idea from a very provincial US perspective.

ISAF holds the tickets to the big events. Use them as leverage. Only give those tickets to countries that have a clear pathway for each disipline. Set a standard and make the countries show you their pathway meets the standard. If you are not developing the sport in your region with an elite junior program and sending competitors to compete at the ISAF junior events...Oh well... no adult ticket to the big dances.

(It could be as lame as designating one junior M and F in each class.. but ISAF pressure will force the MNA's to focus their resourcess to grow the sport at the junior level.)

FYI, The US program puts all their money towards "Olympic Level Sailors" If ISAF developed the sport properly... these elite guys might be able to cover their costs on a gran priz cirucit through sponsorship. If the ticket's are limited by ISAF to three per qualified country for these elite events... the MNA's would invest resources properly.

In the USA...our junior sailors could only find a legit path to the olympics for Lasers and 470's.




crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: BrianK] #158769
10/30/08 08:13 PM
10/30/08 08:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 613
New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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Originally Posted by BrianK
Replace Tornado with F18 for 2012 and after. Each Olympics choose a manufacturer and race one-design as in Alter Cup format. Rotate manufacturer each Olympics. Give JW a lifetime free rum drink card for all the work he's done.

I think that with time quickly running out the tornado probably would get the nod. I think that then 2016 is when to focus upon new equipment. All of this is speculation though at this moment.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: windswept] #158780
10/31/08 04:19 AM
10/31/08 04:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
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I would say move sailing to a more spectator friendly sport.

Shorter course races, with the course very close to shore. 4 short races back to back per day. Allow the spectators to get up close to the boats, including boat park. Set up venues with temporary cafes, music (or live bands)..... Create a carnival atmosphere.

Perhaps model it of the Volvo Champions Series

Oh and keep the big T.

Quote
Get the 2 most exciting Olympic classes (Tornado and 49er), invite the elite sailors, major sponsors, media / TV coverage, cherry picker over the water filming, grand stand on shore for spectators and a bottom mark 40 meters from the shore and the prize money just roles in.

Volvo Champions series curtesy of Tornado guru Roland Gaebler

[Linked Image]

35.000 Spectators celebrated the first 2004 Volvo Champions Race in Bavaria.

Bundock/Howden win first Tour Stop.

One thing was crystal clear when the first 2004 Volvo Champions Race ended this Sunday in Starnberg, Bavaria: 35000 spectators have seen the biggest sailing festival ever happening at Lake Starnberg. Three days of action-packed racing with rounding marks not more than 40 metres away from the audience at the shores created a unique stadion athmosphere. Said three times Olympic Champion Jochen Schumann who lives around 40 kilometres away from the venue in Penzberg and visited the event. "it's been a great event and perfect advertising for our sport.I really enjoyed being there".

It's been an exciting last day as the fight for podium places was not decided before the last race in the Tornado Class. It were then four times World Champion Darren Bundock and his British crew Will Howden, Tour winners of last year's first Volvo Champions Race Series to start into the new Tour with another win.
Austria's Olympic Champions Roman Hagara and Hans Peter Steinacher came second ahead of Sydney's Bronze Medallist Roland Gabler and his crew Gunnar Struckmann.

The tricky conditions on Lake Starnberg offered more stable and stronger winds up to five Beaufort on the last day. Nobody and nothing could stop the young German brothers Pit and Hannes Peckolt to win the 49er event with a clear lead over their fellow country men and reigning European Champions Marcus Baur and Max Groy. Last year's Volvo Champions Race Tour winners Peter and Soren Hansen from Denmark had a great last day with a third and a first thus securing third place overall.

Thomas Hanel, Director of Public Affairs & Events for Volvo Car Germany, said in his final round-up, "already day one has much more than fullfilled our expectations. Saturday and Sunday have been sensational. The audience is enthusiastic about our new race format. I guess we can really claim that there is no more spectator friendly sailing series in Germany at present than the Volvo Champions Race".

That the people really liked the close race action, the 30 world class teams from ten nations and the attractice shore programme with entertaining shows of TV star cook Alfons Schuhbeck, long party nights with life bands and Saturday night's amazing music firework is also underlined by a few impressive numbers from the party tent: Schuhbeck's team served more than 6000 hot meals, 3000 sausages and more than 2500 litres of beer.

The Volvo Champions Race in Starnberg, Bavaria is the first of three Stops of this year's Volvo Champions Race Tour. Following are the Volvo Champions Races in Rostock (2 - 4 July) and Travemunde (24 - 26 September) right after the Olympics.

[Linked Image]



Re: Ok, so we got a seat at the table... [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #158815
10/31/08 09:38 AM
10/31/08 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Alive
The question is not what or how ... The event you point to and Roland's Gold Cup series were very succesful. But they were not sustained... Why?

The problem is that many of the historic regatta's suck ... and offer no opportunity to market sailing by doing these kinds of things. These events are not going away because they are part of the ISAF and Corinthian sailing culture. ISAF would have to sanction or invent these new gran prix events and push the old regattas back to their Corinthian roots.

So... Does ISAF have the vision and skills to do this reinvention .... OR do you try to build this elite racing circuit apart from ISAF?

Here is an example of how the program is mixed up in the US... the Miami Olympic Class Regatta, or OCR is the only ISAF grade 1 event. Should my neice be able to register and go race on her laser? Should a hacker like me be allowed to compete just because I owned a Tornado. (The standing joke was who would rise to the top of the Kiddie pool)

The ISAF sanctioned grade one event is just a multi class one design regatta.... If you own the boat.... pay your US Sailing dues and go! What is special about that?

Look at golf or NASCAR racing... they have qualification series that you need to succeed at in order to make the big show. Scarcity focus'es the mind... Look at qualifiying for a worlds in a popular class.... It is much much more intresting to the competing sailors and the sailing fans.

This is a tough political problem... The people running the classic Corinthia regattas will not want to loose their ISAF cachet... but ... these are the same people you will need to put on the ISAF Gold cup events in windy locations.



crac.sailregattas.com
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