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Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: waynemarlow] #161627
11/30/08 02:31 PM
11/30/08 02:31 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
We went for an electric heater instead. One similar to this one:

[Linked Image]

It have relatively low surface temperature, a good fan, overheating protection (cuts power), easy to inspect and can be cleaned with pressurized air. We got it just this weekend and it seems to do the trick. Was very cheap as well. Just GBP20.

We also found a cheap "industrial" vacum cleaner, so now we can clean up the mess from the sanding before we turn on the heat and work with epoxy.

I need a larger workshop though! Hope to be able to build a boathouse/workshop just by the sea in some years.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #161628
11/30/08 04:51 PM
11/30/08 04:51 PM
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waynemarlow Offline
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waynemarlow  Offline
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Electricity is a bit expensive in the UK to heat for long periods, shock me, how much is 1 kw in Norway ?

Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: waynemarlow] #161629
11/30/08 04:58 PM
11/30/08 04:58 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
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West coast of Norway
In winter one kwh is about NOK1,- or GBP0.093
Not cheap, which is why will run the heater before we glass/glue for 12 hours (thermostat of course), and then turn down the thermostat somewhat. No heating between epoxy sessions, which means the temperature will drop down to about 10degs with our current insulation.

Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #161631
11/30/08 07:03 PM
11/30/08 07:03 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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In winter even with my worklights the resin was really slow to go off so I purchased a gas patio heater and made a smaller enclosure in the shed out of poly tarp. I did the Nacra keels this week in direct sunlight and it went off too quick. Is it practical to heat from the inside of the hulls to say 18 degrees and then epoxy with the lights giving some lift in external temp or is this risking the integredy of the hulls.
regards

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Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: JeffS] #161636
12/01/08 02:28 AM
12/01/08 02:28 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
If you are glassing, be careful with outgassing from the wood (if you are building in wood). Outgassing results in a lot of tiny bubbles in the laminate.

We wanted a fan to circulate the air so we get an even temperature at all heights in the workshop. We thought about IR heaters, patio heaters etc, but in the end the workspace heater was our best solution. Tested it over the weekend and it looks like our insulation work combined with this even is the thing.
Looks like you have something similar in your workshop. The little yellow thing at the front of the hulls looks like an electric fan heater. IP44 standard?

Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #161638
12/01/08 03:11 AM
12/01/08 03:11 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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If you heated the interior of the hull to 20 degrees then got the area around it to a similar temp with the heat lights would that prevent outgassing.
The little yellow thing is the patio gas heater with a built in electric blower so that it blows the heat around the workshop. I had to ventilate the workshop after using the resin then turned it on. Sort of the Darwin theory you know you've ventilated enough if you dont blow up.


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: JeffS] #161639
12/01/08 03:20 AM
12/01/08 03:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
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ready Offline
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be careful doing that jeff


Jerry
A class sail no. 763
mk.4
Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: ready] #161640
12/01/08 03:50 AM
12/01/08 03:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Finland
Gato Offline
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Finland
One thing that is surprising me a bit is the fact that you don’t seems to worry about the humidity.
To obtain a good result the wood should be kept as dry as possible and that will not be the case if storing it in a place that is not permanently heated. It’s no use to seal wet wood with epoxy.

Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: Gato] #161641
12/01/08 04:28 AM
12/01/08 04:28 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
In my case the humidity in the workshop is around 35%. At least it was the last time I checked. I have a hygrometer in the workshop together with the thermometer. The wood dries quickly when cut into planks/strips.
I dont think the humidity really changes a lot with cyclic heating, but you increase the capability of the air to hold humidity when you raise the temperature. Unless you bring humidity into the shop and the workshop is dry, I dont think it is a problem.

Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: Gato] #161643
12/01/08 06:20 AM
12/01/08 06:20 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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I dont let any moisture form in the shed and I ensure everythings perfectly dry before I work on it by preheating the shed for a few days before and keeping the heat going. I was just trying to tap Rolfs experience to see if there was a way to reduce the heating bill.
Ready you serial lurker its good you've come out of the closet, I am carefull I always cringe and close my eyes when I turn the heater on.
regards


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: JeffS] #161644
12/01/08 06:34 AM
12/01/08 06:34 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Tap my experience.. Insulate, reflective layer and stop that pesky ventilation from sucking the heat out. Wear protective gear when working!! smile

Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: JeffS] #161675
12/01/08 04:53 PM
12/01/08 04:53 PM
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Posts: 1,449
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phill Offline
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Originally Posted by JeffS
If you heated the interior of the hull to 20 degrees then got the area around it to a similar temp with the heat lights would that prevent outgassing.


Jeff,
Outgassing is caused by the temp of the timber increasing after the resin is applied. The air inside expands and the extra volume of the expanded air tries to escape.
You can get outgassing just by the day getting warmer if this translates to the temp inside the workshop and hence your timber also increasing in temp.
When I want really good penetration of resin into timber I will deliberately heat the timber and apply the resin and then remove the heat source. Then the opposite to outgassing occurrs. The air in the timber contracts and draws the resin in.
If I was going to do a big laminate job over timber I would wait until the hottest part of the day where I knew the temp would not increase further but fall and then do it. Just a small precaution I would be working on timber whose temp is falling or going to fall. Probably something more applicable to building a cedar strip craft in an outside shelter where the temp can change quite a bit during the course of the day.
I am quite fortunate these days because the temp in my workshop varies very little no matter what happens outside.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Heating your workspace, ideas? [Re: phill] #161676
12/01/08 05:17 PM
12/01/08 05:17 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Kingston SE South Australia
Thanks Phill thats a great tip, at this time of year I could leave the hulls outside from 9am in the sun, take it inside really warm at 12pm, finish the glass work at 3pm and let it all cool down.
That also makes sense in winter for me to heat the piece being worked on from the inside then glass it.
I'd love to find sheets of poly shaped the same as corrugated iron, that I could put on the roof of the shed in winter. That would absorb the winter sun, heat up the shed during the day and slow down heat release at night.
regards


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
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