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Re: Blade building project.. [Re: ] #162815
12/17/08 02:59 AM
12/17/08 02:59 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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I did some quick estimations today on building time in strip:
Planking 5 hours, when done alone.
Sanding the inside and outsite 2 - 3 hours.
Glassing inside and outside 3 + 3 hours

5 + 2 (3) + 3 + 3 = 14 hours for one half hull panel. Scary stuff!

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Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #162821
12/17/08 04:50 AM
12/17/08 04:50 AM
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Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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That sounds in the ballpark for my build.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: ncik] #162822
12/17/08 05:13 AM
12/17/08 05:13 AM
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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Add overhead in setting up the mould, ripping strips etc. and plywood begins to look good wink

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #162875
12/17/08 08:09 PM
12/17/08 08:09 PM
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phill Offline

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Rolf,
Just got back from Sydney with ply and cedar to build another boat. Just for the fun and interest of building using the same method as some CLC18 kayaks I built a couple years back.
If you keep tallying up the man hours we can compare notes when we are both finish.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: phill] #162899
12/18/08 01:36 AM
12/18/08 01:36 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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Will try to keep a tally on the hours. Speed and quality have improved a lot on the strip planking, but the sanding is the same old drugde. Funny thing that became very clear last night is that company dont help everytime. I planked panel #5 alone up til last night, and it is the best panel (planking wise) so far. Last night Frode and I chatted a bit while I put on a plank.. Lo and behold, a really ill fitting plank was the result! Strip planking is best done solo on small crafts like this if one wants the best results.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #162920
12/18/08 08:41 AM
12/18/08 08:41 AM
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phill Offline

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Rolf,
I planked a set of 32ft cat hulls myslef.
It is very relaxing work when not punching a time clock which is the way I feel when someone helps because I'm using up their time.
On the other hand the fairing was a real pain but the planking was great.
So you can probably do Ok on the bigger stuff too.
Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: phill] #163021
12/19/08 02:03 AM
12/19/08 02:03 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

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West coast of Norway
I have no experience with larger boats, but that is nice to know. I think the planking might be even easier on a larger hull? I have told you about my/our dream of doing a larger boat in the future..
Anyway, I can see how some get obsessed with strip plank and begin to build hulls without staples. Fitting just one plank each night etc. It is a bit like zen and quite relaxing. But one must use it as therapy I think, not to get a boat to sail/race if that approach is to be successful. Perhaps I should have as a goal to do one boat/kayak/strip plank project every winter, to shorten the winter and as therapy. Install enough lighting and I can use the time in the workshop as "light therapy" against winter depressions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder

If only there were less sanding involved wink

Last edited by Rolf_Nilsen; 12/19/08 02:10 AM.
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #163023
12/19/08 02:58 AM
12/19/08 02:58 AM
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phill Offline

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Rolf,
Yes it is the Zen concept that turns this into great therapy.
"Wash the dishes for the sake of washing the dishes not for the sake of getting them clean."
"Fit the plank for the sake of fitting the plank no for the sake of building a boat."

To this end, if you have the space, maybe build one large project may be better than a small project each winter.

I have got a lot better at fairing since I built the Alfresco 920 hulls. So much water has gone under the bridge in the last 15 yrs. I would love to build another cedar strip boat.

Each to his own.

Regards,
Phill

Last edited by phill; 12/19/08 02:59 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: phill] #163025
12/19/08 03:22 AM
12/19/08 03:22 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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I will get back to you on the "best practice" to do the fairing as painless as possible when we do the underwater hull or decides to paint our boats!

I dont have the space to do the large project just now, and I dont think the family is ready for me spending 2000 hours on a boatbuilding project over several years either. I know I will have to sell in that thoroughly so there is no hard feelings for me occupying the garage.
Will have to practice our zen a bit careful for the next few years at least. laugh

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #163066
12/19/08 01:21 PM
12/19/08 01:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
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self_inflicted Offline
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Hi Phill
You now use the more practical way of fairing a belt sander and for those finer points a normal palm sander,So fairing a bigger boat will be a lot easier ( i told you you get better with practice). LOL.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: self_inflicted] #163069
12/19/08 01:55 PM
12/19/08 01:55 PM
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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West coast of Norway
Hey, that is what we are doing as well (I am the only one in the group who dares to apply the belt sander): http://woodastic.blogspot.com/2008/03/repeat-until-done.html

I use an orbital sander afterwards with a soft foam pad. Then a quick run over the hull panel with a torture board. Thinking is that we will fair the underwater hull "the hard but proper way" with fairing compound and put on some graphite when time permits.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: self_inflicted] #163070
12/19/08 02:06 PM
12/19/08 02:06 PM
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Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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It’s definitely not the Zen way to do it…but if you want to “gett’er done”…A low speed (under 1750 rpm) heavy duty sander/polisher with an 8” diskkit is much faster than a belt sander but it requires a very skilled operator…lack the skill, choose the wrong grit paper, or stop for in instant in one spot and you will have major problems...In the right hands it will cut your time to a fraction of what a belt sander will take. In the wrong hands it will destroy the fairness of a boat in minutes. You have to constantly stop, step back and LOOK at the work.

When I was building custom million dollar yachts (65’-105’) in the eighties the only thing we used belt sanders for was sharpening our wood chisels when it was too far to walk back to the shop to use the bench grinder…LOL. Sander/polisher> 6” DA> long board…The awl grip hulls of our boats were like a mirror.

Regards,
Bob

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #163071
12/19/08 02:07 PM
12/19/08 02:07 PM
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australia
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Hi Rolf
When i was finishing off my first boat,Phil went into panic mode when i mentioned the belt sander,and as he said alot of water has gone under the bridge and with practice you do get better Ha Ha. But he still does cringe a bit when i mention the B word.And as for stripping paint(industrial 2 pak) you can't use anything else.

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #163072
12/19/08 02:16 PM
12/19/08 02:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Rolf, just sent you a Private Message, thanks. Tim


Blade F16
#777
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Timbo] #163078
12/19/08 02:45 PM
12/19/08 02:45 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

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West coast of Norway
The key to using the belt sander is to never ever stop moving it around, and run it paralell to the fibers, never across. That is my technique, and minimizing stops/starts, as they always seems to leave a mark.

How many watts would a "heavy duty polisher/sander" be? What is a 6" DA?

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Seeker] #163079
12/19/08 02:46 PM
12/19/08 02:46 PM
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phill Offline

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Bob,
That method worked well on the inside of the 32ft cat hulls I built. Hell that was nearly 20 yrs ago.
I tried to upload a pic of the inside of the hulls but that has changed with the new upgrade. Looks like you already need the pic on a server ?

Last edited by phill; 12/19/08 03:10 PM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #163086
12/19/08 03:07 PM
12/19/08 03:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
. . . What is a 6" DA?


Dual action sander. Circular or random orbit. The 6" DA is a very powerful tool for working large areas. There is also an "inline file"; air driven version of the long board, for finer work.

Last edited by Tikipete; 12/19/08 03:09 PM.
Re: Blade building project.. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #163091
12/19/08 03:22 PM
12/19/08 03:22 PM
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phill Offline

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Rolf,

I used the belt sander on the outside of the Alfresco 920 @90 deg to the planks and it worked well. Although the fine cedar dust used to get into the sealed bearings and I went through two sets of bearings in the sander. Using 90 deg probably wouldn't be suitable on thin planks as it rips the wood back pretty quick.
The sander polisher, I used on the inside and it worked great, It had a foam disk of around 7 or 8 inch dia.

Richard,
The belt sander is all very well on cedar planks that are 11mm thick but when you pull out a belt sander to use it on ply hull where the first laminate in the ply is around 1mm thick. I can't help myself.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: phill] #163094
12/19/08 03:41 PM
12/19/08 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 94
australia
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self_inflicted Offline
journeyman
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australia
Phill, I just like to do it to get the horrified look on your face,and agreed Rolf if you stop you end up with an inspection hatch that you don't really need

Re: Blade building project.. [Re: self_inflicted] #163529
12/26/08 05:27 AM
12/26/08 05:27 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Sleeping less means more building done at late nights. Panel #5 (of 12) is now almost ready for sanding and glassing. Love christmas! http://woodastic.blogspot.com/

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