On the weekend we had a mixed regatta, all in from 14ft paper tigers up to a-cat/F18

I'm hoping some one can clarify who has right of way when a quicker boat sails underneath a slower one and calls them up.

what has been happening is particularly off the start line, the faster boats are getting trapped below the smaller ones. the faster boat being covered doesn't have much more speed sometimes not at all but still can point very much higher.

The little boat sailors says they are sailing their proper course and refuse to point higher.

to my mind the overtaking boat should keep clear but I can see where the windward boat should keep clear too.

simple: when boats on same tack the windward boats keep clear.

If the overlap was established from clear behind (likely the case here), the leeward boat can not go above her own proper course (closehauled). If this happens to be higher than the windward boats proper course, then tough luck for the windward boat!

If you are the faster boat, don't get caught up in this game. Foot off a little, get in front, sheet on and get out of there. You may have all the rights to squeeze the other boat up but in the big picture it will slow you down whilst your competitors sail off.

Agreed, being right doesn't equal being fast.

Preaching to the choir!

It not me but I watched it happen plenty of times this weekend and there was a lot of talk around the club.

But can the windward boat be force to sail any higher than close-hauled and proper course?
What if the overlap exists right from the start?

If all else fails, windward boat must keep clear, overlap created from clear astern or otherwise. If windward boat believes leeward boat is sailing above close hauled after establishing overlap from astern, then windward boat needs to yell loudly or protest.

Thats why you need to plan your start carefully when racing mixed fleet. Both windward and leeward loose in this scenario.
Windward need to keep clear of leeward, so poor luck for those who can not point. Both loose in that scenario though.

yes, Windward boat keeps clear.






states that they believe the leeward boat is sailing above proper course; shouts protest and then tacks away. As give way boat you need to prove "in the room" that the other boat was wrong. If you force them to avoid you, you will almost certainly get binned in the room.

Seems like if a Paper Tiger tried to protest an "A" cat for instance in this scenario they would likely lose on general merits of the two boats "in the room", I think it would be hard to "prove" otherwise. Agree smartest thing to do is set your start up different if possible though.

Kirt

This is why you should never ever start above an A cat.

Clear Air is king..

In a slower boat with no boards...aka a Dart 18... you need to set up your start so that you can tack onto port ASAP. Even if you nail the start... you know you won't be able to hold your lane and will be over run to weather and you also have to keep clear of leeward boats. Tack for clear air so that you can sail to your rating number!

If it's a short start line... plan to start in the second row at the boat end... you can tack for clear air almost immediately and have only lost a boat length or two to get to clean air. It is also much much less frustrating then a futile battle with an A cat or Tornado

If it's blowing like stink, and you're on a Hobie 16, it doesn't matter. Start wherever you want, and double trap out. The big boats will be too busy trying to stay upright to bother you.

Any other time, do what Mark said, or start at the pin and foot like a mother...

Mike

Two rules (more if you want to get complicated) apply in this situation: RRS 11 "On the same tack, overlapped" and RRS 17 "On the same tack, proper course".

Rule 11 (a.k.a. windward/leeward) states "When boats are on the same tack and overlapped, a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat". In the given scenerio, the windward boat is required to keep clear.

Rule 17 states "If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her boatlengths to leeward... she shall not sail above her proper course...". This is a restriction on the action of the right-of-way boat. Assuming in this case, that the leeward boat established overlap from clear astern within two of HER boatlengths, she may not sail above HER proper course. If, however, leeward's (L) proper course is above windward's (W) proper course (i.e. L can point higher), then W is out of luck. She must keep clear, even if it means luffing, stalling, or tacking away.

Regards,
Eric

Following up on my earlier message, for light to moderate air...

If you're on a slow (non-pointing) boat, probably the worst place to start is the middle of the line. You get rolled by the fast boats that started between you and the starboard end, and pinched out by boats that started between you and the pin.

If a pointy boat is below you, the smart ones won't actually try to head you up. They may foot a little, and will just outpoint you enough to come up under your bow, cross in front, and kill you with dirty air. If you're trapped and can't tack out because of boats above you, you will die a slow and miserable death...

Mike

Like I said to that Hobie 16 that reach in on top of me and my a-cat during a mixed regatta late last year..."you don't want to be there". The response? "Oh yeah? last I checked I was in this start too". The gun went off and I sheeted in, jumped on the wire, and proceed on my proper course pointing to the moon as I chuckled at the quiet mumble of obscenities from the other boat.

Some people just don't understand friendly advice.

Yep exactly, I learned this the hard way, never ever dever again!

Eric,
Thanks for tying that together for me.