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Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? #174901
04/15/09 08:01 AM
04/15/09 08:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
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Baltic  Offline OP
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Kiel, Germany


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: Baltic] #174908
04/15/09 08:45 AM
04/15/09 08:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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pitchpoledave  Offline
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I think this is wishful thinking. This would destroy the F18 class. Not right away, but give it a few years.

Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: pitchpoledave] #174910
04/15/09 09:05 AM
04/15/09 09:05 AM
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Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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How will it impact the F18 fleet?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
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Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: David Ingram] #174935
04/15/09 12:10 PM
04/15/09 12:10 PM
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uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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Not a bit


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: TEAMVMG] #174965
04/15/09 04:35 PM
04/15/09 04:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
NacraKid Offline
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were already a long way down the line on this one at sailing anarchy
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=88596

Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: NacraKid] #174985
04/15/09 08:40 PM
04/15/09 08:40 PM
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Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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Originally Posted by NacraKid
were already a long way down the line on this one at sailing anarchy
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=88596


I thought that topic was on birdwatching ? like the native "double breasted mattressthrashers"

wink


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: Dazz] #175032
04/16/09 08:02 AM
04/16/09 08:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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True, true! Page two had some interesting bits.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: David Ingram] #175033
04/16/09 08:06 AM
04/16/09 08:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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F18 class is all about having a level playing field. This idea has worked very well in spite of the Tiger one design class. Hobie is again trying to drive a wedge into the fleets out there. We are too few in numbers now to play that game. You just can't favour 1 manufacturer in an open class and have long term success in that class and I think that ISAF knows that. They don't want to hurt the F18 class and so they won't pick the tiger.

I think that a change in the Tornado class to a 1 design/1 manufacturer boat and possibly 1 sailmaker would be the best choice.

Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: pitchpoledave] #175039
04/16/09 08:30 AM
04/16/09 08:30 AM
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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Dave, the Tornado Class has proposed that change and published some nice brochures... the problem is that the Class hasn't voted on the changes apparently, and there are several vocal members who are saying they oppose the change. If the 11th medal comes back and the Tornado is selected as equipment, followed quickly by a Class revolt against one-design... I have no idea what would happen. Which really isn't much different than the last couple of years, now that I think about it... crazy


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: John Williams] #175043
04/16/09 08:47 AM
04/16/09 08:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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Well maybe Randy Smyth was right when he said that we should just do our own thing.

Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: pitchpoledave] #175052
04/16/09 10:06 AM
04/16/09 10:06 AM
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Australia
macca Offline
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The Tornado Class hadn't voted for the big rig (square top and kite) befre it was indroduced for the games but it was voted in by the class.

Nor did the class have a lot of support for the carbon rig until it became clear that it was critical to maintain the Olympic status so again it was voted in.

If the 11th medal happens then I can't think of a better boat than the Tornado to take the spot.



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Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: John Williams] #175278
04/19/09 06:22 PM
04/19/09 06:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Originally Posted by John Williams
Dave, the Tornado Class has proposed that change and published some nice brochures... the problem is that the Class hasn't voted on the changes apparently, and there are several vocal members who are saying they oppose the change. If the 11th medal comes back and the Tornado is selected as equipment, followed quickly by a Class revolt against one-design... I have no idea what would happen. Which really isn't much different than the last couple of years, now that I think about it... crazy


The T proposal for the OLYMPICS is one-design. No need, in theory, for the class to vote on it. The Olympic boay will just be a "one design T".


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: scooby_simon] #175396
04/20/09 01:14 PM
04/20/09 01:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
NacraKid Offline
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Southampton UK
I don't think the tiger will get any where as F18 class has voted against the F18 being olympic, it would be strange for them to allow it over that

Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: NacraKid] #175515
04/21/09 06:02 AM
04/21/09 06:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
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Kiel, Germany
... the F18 class (international?) has voted against being olympic? Any idea why?


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: Baltic] #175536
04/21/09 07:38 AM
04/21/09 07:38 AM
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uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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160 boats registerd for the worlds? doing nicely without it thanks!


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: TEAMVMG] #175560
04/21/09 10:24 AM
04/21/09 10:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
NacraKid Offline
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Southampton UK
they voted against it because being a olympic class is quite often a negative more often than a plus. Boat prices can rise and there is then a larger amount of pro sailors, meaning that events like the worlds fewer ameuters can go

Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: macca] #177248
05/06/09 06:33 AM
05/06/09 06:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Quote

If the 11th medal happens then I can't think of a better boat than the Tornado to take the spot.



Macca has undeniably a point here.

And while I'm not a fan Marstrom in the way of designing (does not include production designing in this case, which Marstrom is very good at), I still say.

Why not use this opportunity to completely redesign the Olympic catamaran along the lines of the Volvo VX-20 boats (20 x 10 x sloop x spi).

These still use the Tornado carbon mast, Tornado sails and Tornado rudders but have a complete new and modern platform. With daggerboards, carbon everywhere and strickt member driven One-design rules ?

Would still be relatively easy and inexpensive for the current Tornado owners to migrate to the new boat as most parts can be exchanged. It would have a flying start as the rig is already dialed in. And the arms race has ended without time consuming procedures like votings. Also because everything is already carbon and so what is there to upgrade ? Hell, also include the cuben fibre sails under strickt area, cloth weight and shape rules (leaving the seaming etc open to allow for tweaks) and have the most modern and egalitarian design in the Olympics which is also the fastest for decades to come !

Without any risk to the F18 class !

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 05/06/09 06:36 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: Wouter] #177513
05/08/09 04:53 AM
05/08/09 04:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline OP
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Kiel, Germany
Are these VX-20 boats already commercially available? I couldn't find anything on Google ...


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: Baltic] #177560
05/08/09 11:24 AM
05/08/09 11:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
NacraKid Offline
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NacraKid  Offline
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Posts: 126
Southampton UK
What i think the VX-20 boats are is just a M20 with a jib, (and maybee other changed features). I found pics or Herbert Derkson sailing one t Texel in 2007, which looks just like a M20

Re: Hobie Tiger becomes olympic? [Re: NacraKid] #177594
05/08/09 05:23 PM
05/08/09 05:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe
Quote

What i think the VX-20 boats are is just a M20 with a jib, (and maybee other changed features).


It has raced a few times at other Dutch events as well.

It is not however a M20 with a jib. Or rather while it looks likes that, it isn't. It is the M20 platform (hull+beams) with a Tornado carbon mast and a suit of sails based on the Tornado rig. I'm not sure as to what width it is. The M20 always used the Tornado rudder setup so that is probably still the same. Anyway it is not a M20 with an after market jib. It is a marriage between the M20 and Tornado designs.

And that is why changing over to that concept will be practical. The crews just change out platforms + daggerboards and use for the remainder the old gear of their Tornado's.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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