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What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. #178704
05/18/09 06:50 PM
05/18/09 06:50 PM
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Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
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I'm just curious, but were the N20's & F18's scored on a corrected time, or on actual time?

What are the limitations on what you can race? Does it have to be a N20 or a F18. Or, if somebody showed up with a different 18-20ft boat could they race? As in Tornado, 18sq, Fox, etc.

Last edited by Karl_Brogger; 05/18/09 06:51 PM.
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Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Karl_Brogger] #178705
05/18/09 06:52 PM
05/18/09 06:52 PM
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St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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oh no first!

Now taking private biddings, please contact me via PM for this spot.

Last edited by Robi; 05/18/09 06:53 PM.
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Robi] #178709
05/18/09 06:58 PM
05/18/09 06:58 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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From a spectator point of view of view I think the classes supplement each other.
Light crews on F18, heavier crews on N20.
And a little bit of health rivalry between the classes to keep everyone sharp.

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Tony_F18] #178713
05/18/09 07:19 PM
05/18/09 07:19 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
From a spectator point of view of view I think the classes supplement each other.
Light crews on F18, heavier crews on N20.
And a little bit of health rivalry between the classes to keep everyone sharp.


That's the way we saw it on the water.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #178716
05/18/09 07:32 PM
05/18/09 07:32 PM
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Rock Hill,SC
KevinRejda Offline
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Amen, I overheard some 20 guys saying "so much for the 18's, our race is the 20's". That doesn't mean they were OK with the 18's beating them, only that they saw the advantage the 18's had in this year's conditions. I'm sure the 18 guys were jazzed to be competitive with the 20's. I do not see a problem with 2 fleets, as long as the numbers are there.


Kevin Rejda
Rock Hill, SC

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Karl_Brogger] #178718
05/18/09 07:47 PM
05/18/09 07:47 PM
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New Hampshire, USA
windswept Offline
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Or, if somebody showed up with a different 18-20ft boat could they race? As in Tornado, 18sq, Fox, etc.

My understanding is that you have 2 classes, F-18 and N-20, Tornados not invited.


Tom Siders
A-Cat USA-79
Tornado US775
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: KevinRejda] #178722
05/18/09 07:53 PM
05/18/09 07:53 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by KevinRejda
Amen, I overheard some 20 guys saying "so much for the 18's, our race is the 20's". That doesn't mean they were OK with the 18's beating them, only that they saw the advantage the 18's had in this year's conditions. I'm sure the 18 guys were jazzed to be competitive with the 20's. I do not see a problem with 2 fleets, as long as the numbers are there.


I agree with that.


Jake Kohl
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: windswept] #178723
05/18/09 07:57 PM
05/18/09 07:57 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by windswept
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Or, if somebody showed up with a different 18-20ft boat could they race? As in Tornado, 18sq, Fox, etc.

My understanding is that you have 2 classes, F-18 and N-20, Tornados not invited.


They were invited a couple years back, and no one came. If the numbers were there for a fleet,now, who knows.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #178727
05/18/09 08:30 PM
05/18/09 08:30 PM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Chuck just told me that if 5 boats came to him with a check in an envelope then "we would talk".

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: ThunderMuffin] #178744
05/18/09 09:41 PM
05/18/09 09:41 PM

D
DougSnell
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DougSnell
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D



Why not just quit the "My boat is better than your boat" and gt back to the days when we raced for the pure JOY of racing and sailing the boat.

Doug

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: ] #178746
05/18/09 09:46 PM
05/18/09 09:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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That's in a different thread Doug. Now go back to your corner until you can be nice.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: TeamChums] #178748
05/18/09 09:52 PM
05/18/09 09:52 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
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I was being nice. Just said why all the fighting. We all because we love it. Right?

Doug

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: ] #178760
05/19/09 12:08 AM
05/19/09 12:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Brian_Mc Offline
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I think the two classes are great for the race! I also wish you guys would come up with a way to modernize the 20's rig. Why not maximize a great boat's ability? Keeping some diversity really adds to the event for me as a fan. This is my favorite Tybee so far, and a lot of that is due to the teams. There is a spirit that pervades this event, and I think this sport. People help the competition! I've never seen that in any other sport!

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: KevinRejda] #178763
05/19/09 12:31 AM
05/19/09 12:31 AM
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Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Originally Posted by KevinRejda
Amen, I overheard some 20 guys saying "so much for the 18's, our race is the 20's". That doesn't mean they were OK with the 18's beating them, only that they saw the advantage the 18's had in this year's conditions. I'm sure the 18 guys were jazzed to be competitive with the 20's. I do not see a problem with 2 fleets, as long as the numbers are there.


I call bull ****..

You want to tell me that Mischa was only worried about Carrie and TCDYC and did not care to beat, Steve Lohmeyer the winner of several previous races on a N20.... Bull... I don't believe it.

Every racer knows who the competition is... Sailors are racing against their peers.. They are racing those top flight guys... no matter what flavor of boat they are on. This is human nature and it operates right on down the pecking order.

If someone was first to the beach on a N20... Do you really believe They ignored the time the first F18 finished... BS!

Find me somebody who let a boat pass them because they were in the other class... I simply don't believe it.

It is quite normal to have several games in play out there... hell... todd and tad were betting rum.

I think the race was scored properly using SCHRS and then in one design fleets. I would also sort the finishes by elapsed time and publish that result as well. EVERYBODY can find the race that matters to them.

Anything else is just spin ...


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: ThunderMuffin] #178770
05/19/09 05:03 AM
05/19/09 05:03 AM
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pgp Offline
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Do you think that would include F16s!? Seriously, I'd be interested in doing the first leg, maybe the second.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: pgp] #178778
05/19/09 06:07 AM
05/19/09 06:07 AM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Nice try Pete, but F16's will never be on the start line of the Tybee 500.

They are too nervous in boat handling and that REALLY wears you down after more then a few hours sailing.

F16 are course boats with sufficient capabilities for a distance race of a single day or so. Not for working your way up the coast in storms and breaking waves for a whole week long.

Even if the boats can take it (they probably can) , the crews riding them can't.


Hell, not even I harbor such illusions ! grin

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 05/19/09 06:08 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Wouter] #178788
05/19/09 07:30 AM
05/19/09 07:30 AM
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Originally Posted by Wouter

Even if the boats can take it (they probably can) , the crews riding them can't.

Wouter


Wouter, I'd prefer if I spoke for myself as an F16 sailor. I'm sure I could do a Tybee if I could afford it.

I assume you meant to say...

Originally Posted by Wouter

Even if the boats can take it (they probably can) , I cannot

Wouter



F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Wouter] #178789
05/19/09 07:32 AM
05/19/09 07:32 AM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Mark,

The F18's certainly were racing the 20's.

For the most part, the 20's weren't racing the 18's. From my post yesterday on my site:

Quote
While I can certainly understand why people chose to compare the platforms, thats not what this race is about. I know that I wasn’t racing the F18’s. I didn’t care about them once we were racing. If one rolled over me to windward, thats fine, I’m not racing them. My competition was more than stiff in the class alone. When I spoke to Steve Lohmeyer on the beach at Fernandina, I asked him what he was going to do today. ”Just keep Trey within 17 minutes of us, thats all we need to do”. I found it particularly telling that Steve, multiple time OVERALL winner of this race, and by any means an accomplished catamaran sailor with an impressive resume, didn’t say something to the effect that “we need to finish an hour in front of Mischa to win.” Whether Steve was being realistic with his goals for the day or he simply didn’t care about racing against the F18’s, I don’t exactly know - but I do know that he finished the overall race in front of Trey.


I think an F16 could do the race. I really do. I do also think that you'd be experiencing some pretty challenging conditions outside of canaveral. There are some serious waves out there that are pretty hard to describe. The warning buoy's that we have to go around out there are yellow balls the size of volkswagons. I've NEVER seen one in my 3 roundings of the cape. You have to be right up on them to see them since the swells are so large, things just disappear when you're in the troughs.

Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: Mark Schneider] #178794
05/19/09 07:44 AM
05/19/09 07:44 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Originally Posted by KevinRejda
Amen, I overheard some 20 guys saying "so much for the 18's, our race is the 20's". That doesn't mean they were OK with the 18's beating them, only that they saw the advantage the 18's had in this year's conditions. I'm sure the 18 guys were jazzed to be competitive with the 20's. I do not see a problem with 2 fleets, as long as the numbers are there.


I call bull ****..


Find me somebody who let a boat pass them because they were in the other class... I simply don't believe it.

It is quite normal to have several games in play out there... hell... todd and tad were betting rum.

I think the race was scored properly using SCHRS and then in one design fleets. I would also sort the finishes by elapsed time and publish that result as well. EVERYBODY can find the race that matters to them.

Anything else is just spin ...


Mark, this is a different kind of racing that I don't know if you have experienced. We don't spend all day trying to cover someone and keep them in our shadow or pressed to the surf line - it only serves to slow you both down while your staring at 80 miles of ocean in front of your bow and a fast fleet all around. Different people have different skills in odd wave and wind angles, wave height and wind speed. You certainly don't slow down to make the pass easy, but you don't fight too hard to keep them behind you if they have speed even if they're in the same class - it kills you both. This is more akin to a drag race than a buoy race.

There are times in certain waves and wind I had a good bit of speed on every 20 in the fleet but if I wasted my speed by engaging in a fruitless battle while I had the advantage, that 3000 feet I could have gained by locking horns with someone, would be gone and next time we gybe or the wave state changes slightly, Lohemeyer will probably be back into one of his (more plentiful) advantaged points of sail and around me in no time flat. Everyone seems to understand that and there is very little boat on boat engagement (until you start to approach the finish line where you will see some engagement).

Believe me - and I'm telling the complete honest truth; At NO TIME did I ever engage a battle with an F18 because it would have been pointless. I never saw any other 20 engage with an F18 on the course either.

Look at car races like the 24 hour Lemans where you have mixed classes racing on an endurance race course - how many times to do you see a slower class trying to block and hold a faster class down...you don't - because it doesn't make sense for either of them. The slower guy, if in front, doesn't slow down to let them by but they don't fight the pass.


Jake Kohl
Re: What the hell, we need another Tybee thread. [Re: ThunderMuffin] #178799
05/19/09 07:56 AM
05/19/09 07:56 AM
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pgp Offline
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Originally Posted by Undecided
Mark,

The F18's certainly were racing the 20's.

For the most part, the 20's weren't racing the 18's. From my post yesterday on my site:

Quote
While I can certainly understand why people chose to compare the platforms, thats not what this race is about. I know that I wasn’t racing the F18’s. I didn’t care about them once we were racing. If one rolled over me to windward, thats fine, I’m not racing them. My competition was more than stiff in the class alone. When I spoke to Steve Lohmeyer on the beach at Fernandina, I asked him what he was going to do today. ”Just keep Trey within 17 minutes of us, thats all we need to do”. I found it particularly telling that Steve, multiple time OVERALL winner of this race, and by any means an accomplished catamaran sailor with an impressive resume, didn’t say something to the effect that “we need to finish an hour in front of Mischa to win.” Whether Steve was being realistic with his goals for the day or he simply didn’t care about racing against the F18’s, I don’t exactly know - but I do know that he finished the overall race in front of Trey.


I think an F16 could do the race. I really do. I do also think that you'd be experiencing some pretty challenging conditions outside of canaveral. There are some serious waves out there that are pretty hard to describe. The warning buoy's that we have to go around out there are yellow balls the size of volkswagons. I've NEVER seen one in my 3 roundings of the cape. You have to be right up on them to see them since the swells are so large, things just disappear when you're in the troughs.


My interest would be in adding color to the overall event. I've no interest in trying to compete with anyone in open water. Karl's comment about how gorgeous the water is peeked my interest and I'm sure he was refering to the 1st leg.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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