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Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? #179017
05/20/09 10:59 AM
05/20/09 10:59 AM

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andrewscott
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I have done a few searches and can't find the answer. I know it has been discussed (at least mentioned) but i am interested in learning how to taper my main. I currently have 9mm Robline Racing Sheets (12 strand, single braid) but would consider other types...

Thanks

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Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: ] #179079
05/20/09 03:49 PM
05/20/09 03:49 PM
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2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
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I use Robline spliced to 1/4 Vectran. I like it alot. I put holes in the sides of each then run the other through so it will be in a locked position (similar to how a figure eight locks). Then I push the tails into the opposite side to hide them. You will need to shave the Robline into a taper before stuffing. The Vectran goes in okay.

Later,
Dan

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dan_Delave] #179097
05/20/09 06:31 PM
05/20/09 06:31 PM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Dan,
Gotta pic?


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

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Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #179101
05/20/09 06:48 PM
05/20/09 06:48 PM
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Sail Sand Point, Seattle
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Which would be better?
spicing two lines or
tapering a line by removing the cover


Mike Hensel
Hobie Tiger
Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: mike220] #179111
05/20/09 08:46 PM
05/20/09 08:46 PM
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Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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Andrew, do you have feminine hands???? 9mm is pretty damn thick! you will find that going onto a thinner sheet will reduce the friction through the blocks and the amount of effort required to pull the main on. 7mm should be heaps.

tapering will help to reduce the load further.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dazz] #179116
05/20/09 09:34 PM
05/20/09 09:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Dazz
9mm is pretty damn thick! you will find that going onto a thinner sheet will reduce the friction through the blocks and the amount of effort required to pull the main on. 7mm should be heaps.
tapering will help to reduce the load further.


i have deleted 3 very sarcastic responses to you and am trying to "take the high road" here.

i wouldn't describe myself as having "feminine hands".

I dont use gloves often anymore. I had 7mm and it didn't work for me when there was 15-20 knots (or above)....

This is why i am asking about tapering it...... !!!! ..... !!!! i know it is a bit thick and will run better if tapered to a lighter line...

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dan_Delave] #179118
05/20/09 10:01 PM
05/20/09 10:01 PM
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PTP Offline
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if you are going to 1/4 vectran, why not 3/16 or even 1/8? it isn't like you are pulling on it and even 7/64 dyneema is certainly strong enough.
guess the transition point may get a little lumpy though and the core of the robline may not fit into the really small dyneema. but maybe you could bury the taper super duper duper long smirk .

Last edited by PTP; 05/20/09 10:03 PM.
Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: PTP] #179120
05/20/09 10:16 PM
05/20/09 10:16 PM
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Dazz Offline
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Thats Ok Andrew, I had to delete what I was going to write at least three times... and that IS my version of the "high road" smile

maybe we should look at the reasons why your suffering, do you not have enough purchase? does the ratchet not grip the rope well enough? are you using a poor technique to grip the rope?



C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dazz] #179122
05/20/09 10:26 PM
05/20/09 10:26 PM
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Ocean Springs, MS
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Originally Posted by Dazz
are you using a poor technique to grip the rope?



I know I am kinda new to this forum to be trash talking but Andrew judging by your avatar Dazz may be on to something... The pinky point out may just be your problem unless you are taking noon tea.


Andrew
"I'm a luffer not a footer"
NACRA F17 #136
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Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Wing nut] #179124
05/21/09 01:08 AM
05/21/09 01:08 AM
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Hamburg
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Hi,

actually there is a third method:
Take a double braided line and remove the core. The big advantage is thet the transition point is very smooth and it is done very easy (no splicing, no tapering).
Liros offer a sheet called Magic Sheet 7 or 9mm with a PP core and Lancline in various diameters called Diminution.
Liros Lancline
Actually you can take any double braided line, but if the core is stronger (e.g. dyneema) than the outer braided, ropes tend to kink or curl, ones a high load was applied. Something I learned from Dinghi sailors and it is true.

I use currently 7mm and think that is ok, if your main has not more than 15sqm. But agreed, it is pain in more than 20kts of wind. I guess 8mm is the good number.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Smiths_Cat] #179127
05/21/09 04:02 AM
05/21/09 04:02 AM
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Vancouver, BC
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I had APS Ltd 's rigging shop make up my mainsheet...it is Maffoli Swiftcord 5/16 (or metric equiv.) where I hold it. This line is very easy on the hands and provides a great grip (soft, fuzzy, not hard). Tapers to a 3/16 (3mm) spectra (dyneema) tail that runs through most of the blocks when fully sheeted on hard. I have 9:1 on 57mm quad blocks (upper) plus a lower triple with two 40mm blocks hanging off the cleat support arms.

[Linked Image]

The line flys with this taper.

Here's another extreme example:

[Linked Image]


But, I've now got a cool 9:1 internal (boom) cascade to swap in the next time I head out for a sail. It's similar to this one:

[Linked Image]

I also had APS make up a forked tail of more 5mm spectra section on my traveller line. The fork is used to tie off to the beam after the traveller car. There are two small ring fittings either side of centerline which is where the tails are tied. This setup gives a very good centering effect on the traveller when pulled in.

You can measure out what & where the splicining/tapers need to go and APS will do the rest for a reasonable fee. It is fussy to get the whipping/tranistions done right so they hold up well...esp. for the mainsheet.

Last edited by Tornado; 05/21/09 04:09 AM.

Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Wing nut] #179144
05/21/09 07:52 AM
05/21/09 07:52 AM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Wing nut
I know I am kinda new to this forum to be trash talking but Andrew judging by your avatar Dazz may be on to something... The pinky point out may just be your problem unless you are taking noon tea.


Haha... its cool Wing nut... i typically don't keep my hand like that... i was doing a dakine hand gesture for the camera...

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dazz] #179146
05/21/09 08:01 AM
05/21/09 08:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Dazz
maybe we should look at the reasons why your suffering, do you not have enough purchase? does the ratchet not grip the rope well enough? are you using a poor technique to grip the rope?


i am certain my harken 8-1 ratchomatic system is working correctly. my grip has not ever been an issue (as far as i know).

i was "suffering" in high winds because the line digging into my hands more than i prefer (only in higher winds)...

We have had bigger air than usual this spring and i decided that when its blowing 25 is when i need to have the best grip... so i swithced to a bigger line.

It actually runs through the blocks very well, but i recently swapped boats with Catman for an hour and loved his tapered sheets...

Last edited by andrewscott; 05/21/09 08:25 AM.
Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Smiths_Cat] #179147
05/21/09 08:07 AM
05/21/09 08:07 AM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Smiths_Cat
Take a double braided line and remove the core.


Yes, but Dyneema Blended Single Braids (robline racing, Swiftcord , Salsa) are very nice on the hands... unlike any double braid i have felt.

Originally Posted by Smiths_Cat

I use currently 7mm and think that is ok, if your main has not more than 15sqm. But agreed, it is pain in more than 20kts of wind. I guess 8mm is the good number.


That size was not available


Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: ] #179149
05/21/09 08:17 AM
05/21/09 08:17 AM
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Posts: 571
Hamburg
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Quote
Yes, but Dyneema Blended Single Braids (robline racing, Swiftcord , Salsa) are very nice on the hands... unlike any double braid i have felt.

Agreed, the Lancline Diminution is dyneema blended, but I am not sure if it is available over the pond.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Smiths_Cat] #179179
05/21/09 10:14 AM
05/21/09 10:14 AM
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I care little for what you think of me but I like a nice soft feel for the mainsheet. I sail Formula 18...maximum purchase allowed is 10:1. I would make that doubled if I could. I sheet the main the whole time as Eileen does not want to. The line I hold is very thick, I admit, that is why I like to taper it for the blocks. For that I use 1/4 Vectran, I do not think 3/16 makes much difference. The problem is when going to splice it you need to make sure you can hide the thicker line in the thinner line so there has to be enough room for it.

There are other lines designed for tapering. You peel off the outer layer and you have a tapered line. They look cool in the pictures. I do not use them so cannot give you any information other than to say they are available.

Later,
Dan

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dan_Delave] #179186
05/21/09 10:28 AM
05/21/09 10:28 AM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Dan_Delave
I use Robline spliced to 1/4 Vectran. I like it alot. I put holes in the sides of each then run the other through so it will be in a locked position (similar to how a figure eight locks). Then I push the tails into the opposite side to hide them. You will need to shave the Robline into a taper before stuffing. The Vectran goes in okay.

Thanks Dan.. sounds like what i want to do. i am not sure i understand the method "I put holes in the sides of each then run the other through so it will be in a locked position". can you eleaborate or do you have a picture?

thanks

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dan_Delave] #179343
05/22/09 05:40 AM
05/22/09 05:40 AM
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Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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Originally Posted by Dan_Delave
I care little for what you think of me but I like a nice soft feel for the mainsheet. I sail Formula 18...maximum purchase allowed is 10:1.


I am sorry Dan, I have looked and cannot find any reference to max purchase in the f-18 rules. Might be a practical limit rather than an actual rule.

Ok andrew just for you, some close up pics...

you can see the core exits the outer about 5 inches from the end, the outer is then through the core. so basically both the outer and the inner pass though each other... then the remaining outer is buried inside the core. the constriction force of the core wrapped around the out will make it a very strong joint.

Dont pay some one to do it, gets some fids and do it yourself, its pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

Attached Files
DSCF0654.JPG (249 downloads)
DSCF0655.JPG (248 downloads)
DSCF0656.JPG (248 downloads)

C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: Dazz] #179345
05/22/09 06:23 AM
05/22/09 06:23 AM
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France
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If you do it, make sure to taper the extremities properly so the join is smooth. Last week end at Rutland the leading F18 had to come back ashore without finishing the first race because their main sheet broke right at the taper. The transition was really abrupt. From your pictures Dazz I'd say the outer is not tapered enough inside the core in yours.

And I agree with Dazz, nothing in the F18 box rule limits your main purchase. However more than 10:1 without a cascade would be quite a lot of rope around...

Re: Whats the preferred method to taper a mainsheet? [Re: pepin] #179361
05/22/09 08:43 AM
05/22/09 08:43 AM

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andrewscott
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Thanks Dazz. I have lots of fids and even a Brian Toss wand.

Did you use a double braid and removed the outer or is that 2 different lines spliced together? It sure looks like the later to me...

PS Brian Toss calls for a taper to be 24 x the diameter

thanks

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