I like the no rules idea, or perhaps one, a maximum length just to exclude Playstation from taking that one as well.

My view is that it doesn't matter if you use a handicapping system.

My favourate race is Texel, almost any cat is allowed. And the great thing is that you can draw your own conclusions from the results.

The last time we did it we were the second fastest UK hobie 16, the guy that beat us had a spinnaker, therefor I can claim to be the fastest UK hobie 16 sailor that day

And if my trapese hadn't snapped putting me in the drink well who knows where we would have come.

It makes me feel alot better saying that than saying I came 331st!

I think the most important thing in sailing is participation, therefore it should be open to as many people as possible.

Texel "appears" to be run by the Dutch milatary, so with armed forces the size of USA's you should be able to organise one hell of a race.

Well, there ya go. Questions like that could eliminate sailboat races. But, on the other hand,if you are operating under the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing, those rules place the responsibility entirely upon the competitor if the competitor chooses to go out on the water and race.

Mary,

I've always felt strongly that all responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the sailor. However, we have become such a litigious society in recent decades, I was just curious if there were such nagging questions that might prevent folks from stepping up to the plate to organize events. Or, if there were any liability issues that might prevent a pull out the stops, no holds barred race.

A purely developmental format would alienate a lot of potential spectators. Even if we had the same kind of technology as on board boats during The Race, persons unfamiliar to sailing would no longer get the same kind of introduction to the Worrell as they do with local news casts and coverage in magazines like Sports Illustrated. Sure it would be interesting to us catsailors but somewhere along the way when somebody's rule buster is 200 miles in the lead it will get boring.

I think open formula boats are the way to go - and not one manufacturer's formula boat. An open formula format like F18 or F18ht would give sailors the opportunity to perform ~some~ experimentation and custom sail tuning within tight rules that would still provide fierce competition. Secondly, the RC should get away from being involved with the manufacturers and let the manufacturers go after the sailors. You think Nacra would want Alex and Nigel on a Nacra F18? You BET! They'll make them a sweet deal and any other sailor they want with the Nacra logo. Hobie? Jamie and Brian? You bet these manufacturers would all of the sudden be able to justify giving away a few boats. Even Billy and Bob can roll a custom boat out of their barn that will fit the formula rule independent of any manufacturer - that's good drama. Making a NASCAR analogy; the manufacturers do give incentives to race teams that choose their platform. If the race committee steps to the side a little and chooses formula, they no longer need to concern themselves with the complications in trying to obtain charter boats. Today's Worrell is at such a level that the majority of competitors already have at least one boat for the race anyway and we've seen what kind of complications can arise when the race committee tries to do too much - this is bad drama. Manage the checkpoints, make some deals with the hotels and maybe a truck rental company, set the rules, set the start and finish lines, let the manufacturers fight over the sailors, let the sailors obtain the boats, and let's bust some surf.

The prize money, that I was pretty excited about at first, now seems like a detraction and one more complicating factor that could potential cause harm to the race again - bad drama. I don't think prize money is bad but it's a hell of a burden to expect race teams to put up the anty when they are already on the outer edge of time and money. 36 teams joined up when the race cost went down for this year with the hotel/truck/boat inclusive $5000 entry fee (up from what? 18?). Now the cost goes waaaay up with the 'prize money anty entry fee' with the promise of cash at the end of the rainbow. I think that basing cash prizes on having more entries than the Worrell has ever seen (as far as I know - I haven't confirmed this) at a higher race cost than has even been had is a bit dreamy. Please Mike, take a step back, go to open formula and make it simple for yourself again. A cash prize would be a great boom to the race but make it a surprise announcement at the skipper's meeting on the first day after a sponser, not the sailors, has already put the cash in the bank - that's good drama.

I'm not a Worrell veteran but I hope to be someday - if I can ever afford it.

Mary,
I am a firm believer in keep it simple. Select one boat(done by committee of past racers and organizers) and commit to it for 3 years. The new boat would be selected right after the last of the three years. Make sails open as long as they measure in to the class rule. The rest of the boat would have to be class legal with the exception of safety equipment. This would allow teams to make an investment in a boat and keep the overall costs down. It would also make for the most competative racing.
I would keep the leg format but base the overall winner on points not overall time. Each leg would be 1 point per place. Lowest points wins with the tie breaker being over all time.
I'm not sure if I would continue with the night legs. They add excitement but the risk is may end up distroying the event(ie. we lose a boat and crew).
What the spectators want is close racing with excitement. The best press is when multiple boats are racing neck and neck.
I would also like to see a tracking system. It could be paid for by a paid web site and sponsor money. Add live feeds from the start and finish.

One point someone made is that if the race were held in a class that had multipule brands it would pit the various builders against each other... I love the idea!

I whole heartedly agree with that. BUT, I have some doubts that a brand like Hobie USA would even bother to challenge. Hobie sold more Wave's and Getaway's last year than any other boat. Hobie USA is developing great products for recreation and very little for racing. The new formula boats are from Hobie Europe.

Plus there is very little brand loyalty. The racing community follows trends. If a team won a bunch of events on an Inter18, I bet Hobie Tiger sailors would jump ship. So when it comes right down to it... what does the brand really matter?

I say open it up to any production boat with allowances for custom sails and rigging.

Jake,
You probably weren't involved in sailing back in the middle '80's when the Worrell had the development class. It's not a matter of the whole race being about development boats. There were only a few development boats and all the rest were regular boats. But those few added tremendous interest to the race and fueled those "what-ifs" and "wonder-why-nots" that wander around in our minds.

Back in the last half of the '50's, and maybe into the early '60's, NAMSA (or what soon became NAMSA) used to hold an event every year in New England, and people brought their one-off catamaran designs to show them off and try them out and test them against each other. That kind of thing did not happen again for 25 years until the development class was included in the Worrell for a few years. And now it has been another 15 years without a venue that encourages this kind of creativity.

It amazes me that all you engineer types out there are opposed to this while I, who have a reputation for fighting against change and technology, am in favor of the idea.

Maybe it is because, to me it seems like the same thing is happening to boats as happened to cars. They are all starting to look alike, and they all seem to have the same limitations.

I find myself thinking about the Worrell from two different sides in recent days. One side says, “wouldn’t it be great if the race were open to virtually anyone, with hundreds of boats on the line, in true marathon style?” The other side thinks about how to best ensure a tightly matched field.

As for media interest, it seems that if it were wide open you would certainly have a few top competitors to focus on for the win, but there would also be the human interest stories that surround the “also rans”.

The piece that I’m thinking about more than anything, though, is how could it become a race that is accessible to as many racers as possible? There are those who might argue that sailboat racing will never enjoy widespread spectator popularity, so why not focus the energy on getting as many boats on the line as possible?

Actually,

The Texel race is run by citizens but as the Dutch marines home port is just on the other side of the creek and can use a bit a high speed persuit practice the Dutch marines help out alot. And they have all the equipement and know-how to make the best safety crew that you can imagine.

Same situation exists at the Caribian regatta's where the Dutch marines have their tropical training grounds.

And of course alot of ex-marines are cat sailors in their older days. For some reason sailing vessel never lost their attractiveness to these modern soldiers on high powered speedboats.

Wouter

Something like,
"What boats or how should the Worrell be raced?"

F20
F18
F18HT
F16
H16

Or Developmental Class
or Developmental Class and Formula
or Run what you have.
You get the idea!

It is no big secret that people will vote more than once, but wouldn't it be Fun to see how it shakes out.

The probable reason that the race has been strict one manufacture designs lately is due to the requirment by Mike Worrel for at least 10 charter boats to be made available to racers. For a builder to cover the costs and the final sale of the 10 used boats.... they insist on being the only boat. Thats why Bimare had a 2 year contract for the Worrel. Previously, Performance had one year deals for Inter 20's. Mike Worrells standard of 10 charter boats was to draw the European's over to the race... Ultimately he found that the transportation and logistics were still a huge hurdle and so he opted for the package deal.

I just want to make it clear the poll is not mine. I started this thread in hopes of opening up some debate about what the sailors would like to see happen with the Worrell 1000. I deliberately did not do it in a poll form, because a poll is too cut and dried and too vulnerable to padding by special interest groups, and I did not think it would yield useful information.

The poll was set up by Wouter, so vote in it if you wish, but this is something that he is doing for his own interests, not mine. So please continue to post your thoughts and comments and opinions about the future you would like to see for the Worrell 1000.

Thanks.

>>The poll was set up by Wouter, so vote in it if you wish, but this is something that he is doing for his own interests


Mary, I don't want to be inpolite but by what means are you capable of establishing my reasons to place the poll n the forum ?

The idea of a poll was suggested by D Wilkins under which my post containing the poll is placed. My reasons for placing it there is that I assumed that he didn't know how to make a poll on this forum.

Further more I fail to see how this poll advances my "own interest" especially since the F16 is not even named as a voting option.

I did make a selection of the most likely options, I mean several options (development and development + formula) are just different implementations of a "Free for all"

I see I din miss out on the H16 option by hey I'm only human.

Wouter

must be the flower power sailors of the 60's pushing this one. " Hey man take a hit of this and then vote FREE FOR ALL".

Relax Wouter, don't read too much into Mary's words. I think she is saying that you created the poll because you were intrested in the answers, not that you were trying to promote your interests.

Arbo,
Exactly right. Anybody can put a poll on the forum in any thread, but it is because they personally are interested in the answers. I just didn't want anybody to think that it was associated with what I am trying to do as far as accumulating information for my magazine.

I started this whole thread by saying that I am doing it in my capacity as editor/publisher of Catamaran Sailor magazine. I said that so it would be clear what my interests are in the answers and how I might be planning to use them. And when Rick or I do a poll that is sponsored by this website, Rick puts it either on our home page or "stickies" it at the top of the Open Forum. I just wanted people to understand the differences. And I did not want people to think that Wouter's poll was taking the place of giving responses to my original question. When people see a poll, they have a tendency to just vote and not give the verbal input that I am looking for.

Now that I think about it, since there isn't really an etiquette book on how to handle these things, it seems as though it would create less confusion if someone who wants to do a poll on a certain subject would start a new thread specifically for that purpose, because then the poll would stand alone, and it would be very clear who was taking the poll. Just a thought.

Okay, if that is the case, please remove the post containing my the poll. I was intending to help out and to disrupt anything.

Wouter

Looks like an interesting poll; even though it's not "scientific," the results could help race planners and potential sponsors. How about starting a different thread with just the poll.

I have already told Wouter by e-mail that I don't want to remove the poll -- and that I don't know how to remove it even if I did want to. It's not a big deal. I just didn't want it to become a roadblock in my goal of getting verbal input about the Worrell 1000. And now, of course, partly thanks to me, it has become a BIG roadblock. It's not Wouter's fault, because he was just trying to help. As I suggested, he should post the poll as a separate thread, with the word "Poll" in the subject line and use the poll icon.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch here at "Catamaran Sailor" magazine, I am still hoping for more verbal input about what people think about the Worrell 1000. And I think the area is way too gray for a poll to be very helpful by people checking one box.