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Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Keith] #180726
06/03/09 06:47 AM
06/03/09 06:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Keith


We had to put in over 3 inches of spreader rake just to be able to get the wrinkles out without going max on the downhaul (actually max wasn't quite enough).

When I bought my Hobie 20 it had a pretty nicely shaped main. But it was explained to me that it had benefited from the custom at the time to take your new stock sails to get them recut so they would be shaped right (some markings on it seemed to support that). It's just that nobody openly admitted it at the time, but if you didn't do it you would be slow. Wonder if that's where we might be without anybody admitting it.


Ahhh....the dirty little secret of SMOD sails rears its ugly head!

Sorry Tawd...he did mention Hobie 20.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jake] #180732
06/03/09 08:00 AM
06/03/09 08:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Jake
did you guys contact E/P about that mainsail?



Ditto Keith. Now would be an excellent time. RE-cutting sails is the same as opening the sail plan, actually worse and I don't believe it's class legal unless EP did it as a repair.

6.2 ALTERATIONS. The mainsail can not be re-cut. The jib sail and
spinnaker may not be re-cut. Windows, tell-tale windows, and chart pockets
are optional. Class insignias may not be repositioned or altered in any
manner. A minor repair to the sail may be done by a local sail maker as
long as there is no alteration to the original shape or sail design. Any
sail extremely damaged (panel replacement) and/or requiring seam repair
must be repaired and re-measured by a INCA licensed sail maker


Todd


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jake] #180749
06/03/09 09:12 AM
06/03/09 09:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 126
Northern Virginia
SoggyCheetoh Offline
member
SoggyCheetoh  Offline
member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 126
Northern Virginia
We have not contacted EP about our problems with our mainsail or our spinnakers.

We bought the sails in early 2007 for our first attempt at the Tybee. Due to delay's and sending us the wrong spinnaker at first, we barely had enought time to unpack the sail and put sponsorship logos on it before we hit the road to Tybee. The Spinnaker was first raised on the beach of Hollywood (starting point in 2007) so we didn't have any time nor did I have the desire to continue to argue with EP about our sail delivery. That was a huge headache that I don't care to go into. Also, I don't think Keith or I knew enough about tuning the Nacra20 to know that we even had a problem, only that it was different, for our originals. Heck for all we knew, this was a new and improved sail plan. We spent the last 2 years experimenting with different tuning ideas trying to find the sweet spot for the main, and I think got it as close as we are ever going to get. After 2 years I wouldn't hold my breath that EP would be willing to do much for us.

As far as spinnakers go, we got 2 new ones back in 07 again for the Tybee 2007, and we were amamzed with how different they both were to the ones we already owned, but again, do to problems with our order at EP, we didn't get our set until the last minute, with no time to make any changes or fixes before the big race. Not only were leach and luff measurements different, but the difference in fullness was scary. Our custom designed black, grey and red sail which fit into our Pirate logo, is so full, I would imagine it would make a great parachute, but absolutely sucks going down wind. So for this years Tybee, we used the plain white one that we also recieved back in 2007 only because it was a better cut than the black one, but as crew I struggled with trying to get it fly right the entire week of Tybee. Now there certainly could be some changes we could make to luff tension that may or may not have helped as I'm certainly no expert.

The one good thing I can say about our Spin was that even though it was only glued together, it never blew apart.

So I'm afraid I've let to much time go by to ask for EP to make it right, but I've certainly learned a few things in the process.

Alec


Alec D.
Pirates of the Chesapeake www.teampiratesofthechesapeake.com
Nacra20 1057 - Crew
F16 Viper 152 - Uni
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: SoggyCheetoh] #180763
06/03/09 10:43 AM
06/03/09 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
veteran
TeamChums  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
I've noticed a difference in the cut of the spinns as well. I was breaking a new crew in that did ONE race with me and we used my #1 chute. Then a few months later we did some practicing and used my #2 chute. He immediately said "WTF is wrong with this thing?" Just his second time running the chute, he could tell an obvious difference. I'm not convinced staying with EP is the way to go for us. Is the F18 class having an "arms race" with thier sails? Doesn't seem like it to me. I will be buying new rags soon and they will definately not have EP on them. I know I won't be class legal but I refuse to spend my money on crap anymore. I will be far less mad getting protested or DSQ'd than I will looking up at over $3000.00 worth of garbage on my boat.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: SoggyCheetoh] #180780
06/03/09 01:25 PM
06/03/09 01:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by SoggyCheetoh
We have not contacted EP about our problems with our mainsail or our spinnakers.

We bought the sails in early 2007 for our first attempt at the Tybee. Due to delay's and sending us the wrong spinnaker at first, we barely had enought time to unpack the sail and put sponsorship logos on it before we hit the road to Tybee. The Spinnaker was first raised on the beach of Hollywood (starting point in 2007) so we didn't have any time nor did I have the desire to continue to argue with EP about our sail delivery. That was a huge headache that I don't care to go into. Also, I don't think Keith or I knew enough about tuning the Nacra20 to know that we even had a problem, only that it was different, for our originals. Heck for all we knew, this was a new and improved sail plan. We spent the last 2 years experimenting with different tuning ideas trying to find the sweet spot for the main, and I think got it as close as we are ever going to get. After 2 years I wouldn't hold my breath that EP would be willing to do much for us.

As far as spinnakers go, we got 2 new ones back in 07 again for the Tybee 2007, and we were amamzed with how different they both were to the ones we already owned, but again, do to problems with our order at EP, we didn't get our set until the last minute, with no time to make any changes or fixes before the big race. Not only were leach and luff measurements different, but the difference in fullness was scary. Our custom designed black, grey and red sail which fit into our Pirate logo, is so full, I would imagine it would make a great parachute, but absolutely sucks going down wind. So for this years Tybee, we used the plain white one that we also recieved back in 2007 only because it was a better cut than the black one, but as crew I struggled with trying to get it fly right the entire week of Tybee. Now there certainly could be some changes we could make to luff tension that may or may not have helped as I'm certainly no expert.

The one good thing I can say about our Spin was that even though it was only glued together, it never blew apart.

So I'm afraid I've let to much time go by to ask for EP to make it right, but I've certainly learned a few things in the process.

Alec


Call Them. If you don't try you'll never get anywhere. Tell them the scoop just like you outlined it above. They'd be foolish not to work with you on a solution.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #180786
06/03/09 01:33 PM
06/03/09 01:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Here's a link to FREE class membership.
ALL owners ,please sign up so we can have a voice in these class matters.

http://www.nacraclass.com/northamerica/NAINDEX.htm
Click on membership in the left column.
Todd


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #180787
06/03/09 01:38 PM
06/03/09 01:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Here's a link to FREE class membership.
ALL owners ,please sign up so we can have a voice in these class matters.

http://www.nacraclass.com/northamerica/NAINDEX.htm
Click on membership in the left column.
Todd


That's right! Free membership. Let's get this party started and keep this class strong! Nacra20class.com has been acquired and will up and running soon with forums, calendars, classifieds, tuning/tips, pics, and other good stuff! Tad and I are diligently working to get it up and running.

In the mean time, join the class association, and go sail!


Trey
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: NCSUtrey] #180789
06/03/09 01:40 PM
06/03/09 01:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Thanks Trey!


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #180798
06/03/09 02:29 PM
06/03/09 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Wow Trey thanks for blowing up the site before I even have a chance to work on it :P

Guess I know what I'll be doing all night smile


Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: SoggyCheetoh] #181035
06/04/09 11:29 PM
06/04/09 11:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
The one thing to add to what Alec said that is that we didn't use these sails much after the 2007 Tybee, electing to save our new sails for our next attempt, and sailed mostly on our old rags. We trotted the new ones out once in awhile and figured that we just weren't tuning right and that we'd pay more attention later. By the time we got serious about them it was too late once we realized what we were dealing with. So our big mistake was not using them enough to figure them out. Again, saving gear and money, and figuring it was just a tuning issue. Maybe we will try to contact them, we'll figure that out.

Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Keith] #182413
06/18/09 06:06 PM
06/18/09 06:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I just got our replacement E/P spinnaker today and it looks really good. They also did all the extra little things we had been doing to reinforce the kites for distance racing...the little webbing strops to reinforce the grommets and the horizontal seam that has been of topic lately is glued AND sewn. Nobody ever wants anything to fail but I feel like I've been served well - thanks Skip and Harry!



Jake Kohl
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jake] #182421
06/18/09 09:14 PM
06/18/09 09:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Hey Jake,

Was this the one that failed that was repaired, or was this a brand new kite?

Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: ThunderMuffin] #182422
06/18/09 09:17 PM
06/18/09 09:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
there wasn't much left of ours that failed - the failure ended up tearing through several panels because we thought we could baby it in (wrong). It's a new one.


Jake Kohl
Re: Nacra 20 owners only!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jake] #183053
06/25/09 01:21 PM
06/25/09 01:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
My repaired chute and replacement chute showed up today. Same modifications were done to my repaired chute that Jake's had. Haven't unflaked the new one to check.

Thanks EP! You guys certainly stand behind your products!

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