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Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: pbisesi] #181087
06/05/09 12:40 PM
06/05/09 12:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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I confess I had hoped the show of good faith displayed by clubs like ABYC in inviting Hobie points events would be met with corresponding Hobie regattas that would invite other classes to their events. The San Diego Classic, for example, would be a fun event for the F18s to race. There aren't very many Hobie-only regattas in SoCal, but that is one I have heard is a good time.

At the same time, it would be folly to ignore the passionate feelings on this issue. The debate stressed our club (Fleet 35/The Key Team) to the breaking point. Similarly, I watched a Fleet 3 meeting disintegrate when x-class was mentioned as a possibility by someone typically viewed as one of the Hobie faithful. As a result, I generally clam up on the topic. If Pat can get away with the post above without getting his head taken off, though, I think the conversation might be at a point where it might advance rather than melt down.

[/tangential hijack]


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: John Williams] #181089
06/05/09 01:12 PM
06/05/09 01:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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Okey dokey, I postulate this to all of you:

If it were so very important to us all, a majority of us all, or even just the hardcore racers for that matter... that we onedesign race, then this debate wouldn't even be happening.

Why, you all should be asking, don't the dedicated racers all go out and buy the same damn boat?


Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Jake] #181093
06/05/09 01:25 PM
06/05/09 01:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
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“an island in the Pacific....
Originally Posted by Jake


I had a dog....and his name was "Bingo".

N 42


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181096
06/05/09 01:39 PM
06/05/09 01:39 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



Did she call me a hypocrite? I don't remember saying anything but 'I promote Hobie sailing'. Catamarans in general, or open class events or whatever else is going on everywhere else: I'll leave that up to someone else to promote. They got people to do that. The hypocritical thing (if you ask me) in my most humble opinion: is that there are people out there, that act as if they hate our organization, and continually throw up as many road blocks as humanly possible, make hurtful statements, make negative remarks ( and you know all the rest) and expect HCA to change to be the way they think we should be, THEN tell me that if we were to work to build our ranks in said areas of the country that WE would be having a negative impact on the sport. Hhmmmmm. I, as you can imagine, have gotten Private Emails about this thread from MANY differnt people from MANY different parts of the globe (yes, everyones sarcasm is read in differnt hemespheres) and its not very flattering for any of us to be doing this fire/volley crap back and forth. I shouldn't even say that, because I have YET to make or even see an 'anti-catamaran event' statement come out of me or any of the Hobie People that have been involved in this thread. I HAVE seen enough Anti Hobie **** to choke a donkey. Tami, please don't call me a hypocrite. I have not minced words and I am not trying to be part of some grand scheme to undermine the existing racing scene anywhere. I am just trying to establish a few Hobie events here and there so all us Hobie-people north of the Mason Dixon line have a nice place to come spend our vacation money.
Don't you live around Biloxi? We are hopefully bringing some people down there for a pretty sizeable event next spring. Does that mean nothing to you? I was co-host of the Area K qualifier a few years ago, had 30ish boats, so don't go telling anyone I am anti Open Class racing. I got my butt kicked by N-20s all day long at that event. My H20 was great up wind then bye bye.....
Next?

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: ] #181098
06/05/09 01:46 PM
06/05/09 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
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Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Originally Posted by xanderwess
I am just trying to establish a few Hobie events here and there so all us Hobie-people north of the Mason Dixon line have a nice place to come spend our vacation money.


You guys are always welcome at our events, even if you have a Northern drawl. We'll even roll the carpet out to you for travelling so far. Are you saying that you'll only travel to race in a Hobie-only event?


Trey
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: pbisesi] #181101
06/05/09 01:56 PM
06/05/09 01:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline OP
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Mark Schneider  Offline OP
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Annapolis, MD
Pat B wrote
Quote
Right or wrong, we have chose to make Hobie's and more specifically the H16 as our definite major purpose.
I feel like we have been successful, others may disagree with our goal, but it's hard to argue with the results.


Really!... these are the results you are proud of?

Madcatter 2006 vs Madcatter 2009
H16 60 boats down to 50 boats.
H17 9 boats down to 0 boats.
TheMightyHobie18 2 boats down to 0 boats
Tiger 20 boats down to 7 boats.

You are right... I can't argue that you are not getting what you wanted...

What happened to the other sailors?

Mike wrote
Quote
Trey, in a nutshell, as a class, we (the HCA) don't care about building large mixed-bag regattas. As Pat and Chris have stated, this is the direction that the Hobie class has chosen as our best path forward. Others may disagree, but we feel that this is the direction we want to go. .


Most people would call a regatta that has three classes (H16, 17 and 18) a mixed bag!

Why do you forget that its an ASSOCIATION OF SEVERAL CLASSES (real classes like Hobie 18's or just on paper class like Hobie Waves) The conflict of interest is enormous!

Quote
And, for those who may have forgotten, we tried it the other way, the results were worse for the Hobie classes (it was just taking longer for fleets and events in weaker areas to completely evoporate)


Right!... now you send poor Wessels out there to put humpty dumpty back together again ....But... Humpty Dumpty looks like a Hobie Only event which failed in the first place!

If it actually happened it would pull boats away from another regatta trying to break even and attract boats and it will certainly piss of the volunteers working at running events already.

Note added. re Pat's last post.
Consider what the world would look like if the Class association represented ONE CLASS of boats and just supported one design racing of 5 or more of those single class legal boats in any event in the country.

The yacht clubs aka hobie fleets would then be free to support all their local sailors and make money running races for classes that agree to come. BEFORE the Hobie EDICT... Hobie Fleet 54 ran races for the International Canoes at Gunpowder. (basically a half catamaran) They have also run races for International 14's. Mystere 6.0's, A class and god forbid... Open class

IMO... separate supporting the OD class business from the individuals who form a club and host a regatta.

Last edited by Mark Schneider; 06/05/09 02:10 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: ] #181103
06/05/09 02:04 PM
06/05/09 02:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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tami  Offline
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Gulf Coast
Wessels, your words:
"Yes, we'll race, but it is all about the party, and hangin' out with the whole catamaran community." (italics mine)

I'm pretty damned sure that the WHOLE catamaran community includes boats which are NOT Hobie. So yes, you did say something other than 'i promote hobie sailing.'


" I am just trying to establish a few Hobie events here and there so all us Hobie-people north of the Mason Dixon line have a nice place to come spend our vacation money."

You "hobie-people" (your words, is that like 'white people?') already have very good events down here which are established for many MANY years to come vacation to. You can support those, THEY ARE ESTABLISHED. Do you not understand? PRECEDENT. PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED. GETTING ALONG. UNIFIED. JUST FINE. WELCOME TO ALL AND SUNDRY, INCLUDING HOBIES. SO BRING YOUR butt ON DOWN AND DON'T FUK WITH US.

Here. Let me explain. It would be one thing if a: there were no previously established groups at all; or b: there were established SMOD groups which you would be building on. But the game is very much changed when you and your ilk seek to barge in to a situation well established and smoothly running and impress exclusivity and divisiveness upon it. Therein lies the anger, and apparently it's not unique to my area.

Hobie let Pandora open the box, and now with the edict seeks to close it. Live with the consequences.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181104
06/05/09 02:20 PM
06/05/09 02:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
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Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
Where is Sylvester McMonkey McBean when you need him?

This has really turned into the "Sneetches on the Beaches"!

Fleets are dying left and right from all classes and categories of boats. It's not Hobie's fault there are 20 abandoned H16's at my club, anymore than it's their fault there are 20 abandoned Highlanders, or 12 abandoned Interlakes. But if Hobie wants to promote a Hobie regatta, why is that any different than Customflex promoting an Interlake regatta?


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181105
06/05/09 02:24 PM
06/05/09 02:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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B

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Posts: 3,969
I'm out of popcorn, and just lost my appetite...

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: brucat] #181106
06/05/09 02:28 PM
06/05/09 02:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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tami  Offline
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Gulf Coast
Here. Let me explain. It would be one thing if a: there were no previously established groups at all; or b: there were established SMOD groups which you would be building on. But the game is very much changed when you and your ilk seek to barge in to a situation well established and smoothly running and impress exclusivity and divisiveness upon it. Therein lies the anger, and apparently it's not unique to my area.

Hobie let Pandora open the box, and now with the edict seeks to close it. Live with the consequences.


Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: IndyWave] #181107
06/05/09 02:37 PM
06/05/09 02:37 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



I said that? I don't remember. I am pretty sure, hanging out with a few of you would entail me sitting there trying to suck down a Heineken and being yelled at because you're pissed about something I have no control over.
Tell you what: I can call the guys at Ocean Spring Yacht Club and tell them Tami said we shouldnt have an event there because we're bringing our exclusivity and FUKing with all of you. 'Hobie-People'/'White people" are you ****ing kidding me? Digging pretty deep now.
Look, if my Board of Directors (Div chairs/womens rep) tell me that we're going to do open regattas, then fine. But until then, we're gonna go the way we're going. You seem to hate, because we're not doing things the way you want us to. What the hell is all that about? You don't do things the way I want, but I don't throw sh#t at you. And just because we have a full sailing schedule of Hobie Events that the bulk of the 'hobiepeople' like to go to, why are you getting bent at the fact they don't drive 600 miles to go to a multihull regatta somewhere in the south? Is that their fault for not wanting to go or yours, for not making is more attractive to them? You can toss your negativity around all you want. I am charged with maintaining and trying to build my group. That's what I am doing and if you don't like it, I don't know what to tell you. According to Trey, I WILL fail.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: ] #181108
06/05/09 02:48 PM
06/05/09 02:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
pbisesi Offline
enthusiast
pbisesi  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y

Really!... these are the results you are proud of?

Madcatter 2006 vs Madcatter 2009
H16 60 boats down to 50 boats.
H17 9 boats down to 0 boats.
TheMightyHobie18 2 boats down to 0 boats
Tiger 20 boats down to 7 boats.


Almost successful Mark
Rest assured, measures are being taken to eliminate those last 7 boats.
Thanks for the input.


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: pbisesi] #181109
06/05/09 02:52 PM
06/05/09 02:52 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



Good one pat!

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: ] #181110
06/05/09 03:12 PM
06/05/09 03:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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tami  Offline
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Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
G.Zeus, man, YOU used the term 'hobie people,' how nice is that? Do you think those sort of expressions make X-brand boat owners feel like joining your cause? It smacks of snobbery, but hey, I'm sure that's good for the sport... and you wonder why the bitterness.

Why is it so difficult to understand that the situation is dire enough that telling ANYONE they can't come play in the sandbox is a bad idea, ESPECIALLY when the sandbox has been previously accessible to all?

Allow me to tell you a story:
Years ago, the only game in town was Hobie catamarans. There were lots of fleets and an established points system. And then, for whatever reason, people within these fleets began to leave, either to other types of boats or to leave altogether. Which was ok, 'cause the Brand X guys had their own stuff going on, and so did the Hobie guys.

And then, one day, the Hobie fleets, for whatever reason, didn't have enough numbers to fill out their regattas, so they opened up their regattas to all and sundry. The Brand X guys even stepped up and ran the races and they were certainly there to keep things going, I think the term 'delayed' was used, but it kept these groups from dying out immediately altogether. I know, I was one of those people keeping it going.

Now, the HCA has decided, not in the interest of beachcat sailing in and of itself, but for brand promotion and market share, that they will bar those who KEPT THE FLEETS ALIVE for all those years from participating.

Call that negativity all you like, but it's just plain obvious that I'm just voicing the cries of my sport when I say to you that EXCLUSIVITY WILL KILL THE SPORT. I've been watching it die, which process was accelerated by the Edict, and I'm damned if I'll let it go quietly. If the Edict had worked, Wessels, you wouldn't have to be out there beating the bushes.

You answer me one question, which I asked earlier, and you'll likely solve the problem:
If it were so very important to us all, a majority of us all, or even just the hardcore racers for that matter... that we onedesign race, then this debate wouldn't even be happening. Why, you ALL should be asking, don't the dedicated racers all go out and buy the same damn boat?

I would suggest to you that just about without exception we ALL, even those who are 'negative,' used to sail Hobie. WHY DID WE LEAVE? Maybe you ought to solve THAT problem and not go cutting folks out of the sandbox.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: pbisesi] #181112
06/05/09 03:23 PM
06/05/09 03:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
Quote
Rest assured, measures are being taken to eliminate those last 7 boats.


I guess that sums up the mentality of the mythical "Way of life" BS. That remark and the following cheer is attitude loud and clear, you just don't get it.

Have A Hobie Day!


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181113
06/05/09 03:26 PM
06/05/09 03:26 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



I'll get to work on it right now.
I am heading to a regatta up on the Mississippi River at Lake City Minnesota, so I won't have computer access and will miss the next 33 pages of this thread. Please feel free to text me paragraph after paragraph on WHY the HCA has ruined the world and why I should go against everyone in my groups wishes so that you will finally be happy. Oh yea, Lee? He was joking. So was I. Sarcasm only goes from Open class TO Hobie I guess. Hobie to anyone else doesn't work I see.

Last edited by xanderwess; 06/05/09 03:29 PM.
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: ] #181114
06/05/09 03:30 PM
06/05/09 03:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Quote
why I should go against everyone in my groups wishes so that you will finally be happy.


Before you go... could you find the results of the vote of the rank and file Hobie sailors approving/disproving the hobie edict and publish them here?


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: TeamChums] #181115
06/05/09 03:32 PM
06/05/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
pbisesi Offline
enthusiast
pbisesi  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
Someone doesn't get it.

[Linked Image]


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: pbisesi] #181116
06/05/09 03:39 PM
06/05/09 03:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
addict
tami  Offline
addict

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
Well Pat,

you make an interesting point here. That is, I've often found it analogous between the Harley and the Hobie mentality. I'm just not sure that the marketing strategy which works for Harley riders will work for multihull sailors.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181118
06/05/09 03:51 PM
06/05/09 03:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
pbisesi Offline
enthusiast
pbisesi  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
Phew, OK Tami, I'm just glad your not yelling at me smile


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
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