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Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: pbisesi] #181119
06/05/09 03:54 PM
06/05/09 03:54 PM
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Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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Bisesi, you voiced exactly what I had in mind. Invite everyone to the party and then you can sell 'em on the goods. What is so complicated about that?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: IndyWave] #181120
06/05/09 04:10 PM
06/05/09 04:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
bullswan Offline
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Pooh-Bah

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Northfield,NH USA
Originally Posted by IndyWave
Where is Sylvester McMonkey McBean when you need him?

This has really turned into the "Sneetches on the Beaches"!




Word.


The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: ] #181125
06/05/09 04:50 PM
06/05/09 04:50 PM
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Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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Quote
Oh yea, Lee? He was joking.


I thought that was serious since Hobie Tigers aren't made by Hobie US. Seemed to fit after what Hobie US did about stopping the Hobie Wildcat from being raced in the Tybee, then sold as a USED boat.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Mark Schneider] #181127
06/05/09 05:04 PM
06/05/09 05:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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Have a nice regatta ... and abuse Karl ... just alittle please

I'll take my "Hot Chocolate w/ a splash of "Irish Cream" Please ....


Harry
TheMightyHobie18(mag)/ Fleet54, Div11
P19MX/ CRAC, "Open" Class

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181129
06/05/09 05:13 PM
06/05/09 05:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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California
Originally Posted by tami
Why, you all should be asking, don't the dedicated racers all go out and buy the same damn boat?


See! Tami does get it.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: mmiller] #181138
06/05/09 07:22 PM
06/05/09 07:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 454
Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
T
Tom Korz Offline
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Tom Korz  Offline
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Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
I have stayed out of this one, cause I have some different and strong opinions on some of theses things. But I would like to hold out that one one the biggest reasons for the lack of growth is the "Dude" boats. You know what I mean, the boat that is mostly sailed 2 Dudes.

What our success is based upon is a boat that can be raced ,sailed and rigged (trailered, etc) by couples or teens or 2 chicks....you get what I mean) I have owned and raced Dude boats (I20 & F18's) and they were fun, once they are on the water. But I am mostly an amateur racer, and even tho it may not be the slickest sailing boat, there is no better bang for the buck than the Venerable 16. Most places you can run into good size fleets with a great cross section of folks.

Until we get to a critical mass with F18 in this country we will not see any fleets with the size and the depth the 16 provides. A Cat is approaching the size, The depth is crazy, but the boat is a techie & a VERY expensive rig to run. you can get 2 NEW H16;s maybe more for what a new Acat costs) I have race other cat class Nationals, and frankly while there are great sailors there, a 15-20 boat NA's is no big thrill. (maybe Im spoiled)

I sail in the Southeast quite a bit and see very little in the way of youth promotion. Virtually no female skippers. All dude boats.

End of that rant.

OK, how bout monohull type view. Someone said why don;t the hardcore racers buy the same boat. Well, the mono peeps DO!@!! They search out the tough classes and whether or not it is the sexiest boat, they buy, learn and race it. The deffinition of the hardcore racer.

Racing is not who has the fastest boat, its who makes their boat go the fastest.

Gimme a NacrcornprindleAQUACATwaveBLADEtornado at a decent price point , with a good RC and a place to race and I'm IN.

Flame suit on.

Your milage may vary

Take someone new sailing!!!

Point High and Foot Fast!!!







Last edited by Tom Korz; 06/05/09 07:25 PM.
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: mmiller] #181139
06/05/09 07:24 PM
06/05/09 07:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 454
Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
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Tom Korz Offline
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Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
Yep Tami, Why would a dedicated racer run away from a good class cuz da boat ain't sexy crazy

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Tom Korz] #181140
06/05/09 07:52 PM
06/05/09 07:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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The 'dude boat' killed the Hobie fleets?

Did the H16 cease production? Did it become only regionally available? Have we all not heard of the H16? Did it get more expensive?

come on now, people freely CHOSE another boat, when the H16 was there for the choosing. As promoters, you should find out WHY. Don't force your agenda, this is causing resentment.

Ask the right questions, offer better alternatives. Better alternative offerings are working well for Hobie in Europe... Hell even Volkswagen will tell you, 'give the people vhat they vant.'

Oh... and something else... from Brownsville to Key West, I'm pretty damn sure that there isn't a "good sized" fleet, and on the Louisiana coast, there isn't a fleet AT ALL. Really. I promise. I'm here. I'm da Mama, I know everyone. I'm not repeating someone else's marketing spiel.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181141
06/05/09 08:09 PM
06/05/09 08:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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Not any 16 class racing going on here. I only see a sprinkling of em around.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181142
06/05/09 08:13 PM
06/05/09 08:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 454
Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
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Tom Korz Offline
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Tom Korz  Offline
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Posts: 454
Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
Tami,

I think you missed the Whole gist of my post. The dude boat didn't kill Hobie fleets, they just kill their own fleets. A great class just keeps going. i.e LAser, Lightning..H16...) There is always a bigger faster Dude boat (boy, it really reminds me of the Offshore powerboat guys)

I am just trying to give my own experiences, which are positive. No agenda, just having fun sailing with my kid and wanting to increase participation.

I'm just coming from a place that is growing and want to share what has worked for us.

Anyone can pick what boat they want to sail (I like my H16 & F/c31 wink)

No angst here, just alot of great racing and sailing.


Just remember It's just my choice, I can handle the repercussions.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Tom Korz] #181143
06/05/09 08:25 PM
06/05/09 08:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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tami  Offline
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Your group is unique in the country. And, as I have said previously, well led, by dedicated active folks. Y'all have made your dedication multi-generational.

Therein lies your success. INVOLVEMENT.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: tami] #181145
06/05/09 09:05 PM
06/05/09 09:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 454
Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
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Tom Korz Offline
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Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
you are right, peace and reachin tami

two hulls are better than one, but are three hull TJAT much better???

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: mmiller] #181146
06/05/09 09:23 PM
06/05/09 09:23 PM
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Originally Posted by mmiller
Originally Posted by tami
Why, you all should be asking, don't the dedicated racers all go out and buy the same damn boat?


See! Tami does get it.


Yes! They should all go out and buy Nacra 20s! eek


Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Tom Korz] #181147
06/05/09 09:31 PM
06/05/09 09:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Tom

I agree with you that dude boats shift the racing scene as well as the social scene.

Way way back when.. a thread started by Ding who posed the question about being unwelcome at regattas... which actually started this wave thread.

I think you can make a case that when the dude boats start to predominate in a region or at a regatta... the simple Hobie 16 with an average family guy and his kid MIGHT start to feel like he doesn't fit in. He might be less likely to keep sailing.

Yacht clubs work it so that one fleet runs the events for the other... imagine a world where the F18 and A class and Hobie 20 fleets ran the Hobie 16, 17 and 18 and slow dead boat regattas on the first weekend and they reciprocated for the third weekend? Both fleets would run a few events for Newbies and rec sailors (eg the catapaloza event they described.



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Keith] #181148
06/05/09 09:33 PM
06/05/09 09:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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HMurphey  Offline
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SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
NO ... NO ... NO ...

the BEST Racer/Beach Cat EVER .... the TheMightyHobie18

(and I know you had one Kieth !!!! HAaaaaaaaa .....)

By the way are some of the I/N20's coming to Rock Hall on June 19th-21st from WRSC????

Yes ... Yes ... Yes ?????

Harry

Last edited by HMurphey; 06/05/09 09:35 PM. Reason: correction
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Tom Korz] #181149
06/05/09 09:36 PM
06/05/09 09:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Annapolis,MD
Originally Posted by Tom Korz
Yep Tami, Why would a dedicated racer run away from a good class cuz da boat ain't sexy crazy


Awhile ago I crewed for an SCCA C-Sports racer. I asked him what the best class was to get started and go racing. He replied "pick the class that feels like a race car to you", point being if you didn't like the car/class you'd eventually lose interest. I believe he was right. Same thing for boats.

On the dude boats - dude boats happen two ways - one is that the boat picked requires two dudes. The other is that two dudes want to go racing and need a boat that can float them. Non-dude boats typically have a crew weight that excludes dude crews. Having a mix of boats helps ensure wider participation.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Tom Korz] #181150
06/05/09 09:43 PM
06/05/09 09:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Annapolis,MD
Originally Posted by Tom Korz

OK, how bout monohull type view. Someone said why don;t the hardcore racers buy the same boat. Well, the mono peeps DO!@!! They search out the tough classes and whether or not it is the sexiest boat, they buy, learn and race it. The deffinition of the hardcore racer.

Racing is not who has the fastest boat, its who makes their boat go the fastest.



Actually, the largest participation of mono-types (at least around the Chesapeake) is PHRF. And, for the OD monos there are a bazillion mono classes to choose from. And, when a yacht club has a regatta you'll find starts for a bunch of those classes. The Snipes are not telling the Lightnings and 505s they can't play.

Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: TeamChums] #181153
06/05/09 10:09 PM
06/05/09 10:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 60
Oklahoma City
ghhm43 Offline
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Oklahoma City
Originally Posted by TeamChums
Seemed to fit after what Hobie US did about stopping the Hobie Wildcat from being raced in the Tybee, then sold as a USED boat.


say it isn't so.

Is there truth to this Mr Miller?
ouch.....

Last edited by ghhm43; 06/05/09 10:10 PM.

Gordon

Macgregor 222
Nacra 5.5sl
E-Scow 1975 Hull #1
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: Mark Schneider] #181156
06/05/09 10:23 PM
06/05/09 10:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
I think you can make a case that when the dude boats start to predominate in a region or at a regatta... the simple Hobie 16 with an average family guy and his kid MIGHT start to feel like he doesn't fit in. He might be less likely to keep sailing.


Nailed it!

I think the above statement is right on. The average guys don't want to play anymore.

What made Hobie work in multiple classes was the camaraderie of "Hobie", but we were getting thinned out by our own multiple classes and "Dude" boat mentality. Bigger, better, faster... more money, more rules and less fun. 204 has understood this all along and promotes a class that draws people in.

This is what the HCA is after as a whole... hold on to a few of the most active classes and build back on the fun. It is a bit like Harley Davidson in a way. Hobie people like to hang with other like-minded and yes, branded people. Its just the way people are... car clubs, bike clubs... whatever. They like it when things are pretty much alike. Before I EVER got into racing... we hung at a Hobie beach and Prindle had their area. It is just the way schools of fish are. Trying to stretch that to include all cats as one group is really... out there. It works in a way, but... not really tight like your own boats. H16, N20, F18 whatever. They gravitate to each other. That is the same at Yacht Clubs... the specific fleet guys hang together for the most part. When the Hobie fleets ended up with so many classes of boats and then different multihulls, the comraderie changed and thinned out. Hobie didn't kill it... its just the way things changed over time.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Unwelcome.... re Waves [Re: ghhm43] #181157
06/05/09 10:28 PM
06/05/09 10:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by ghhm43
Originally Posted by TeamChums
Seemed to fit after what Hobie US did about stopping the Hobie Wildcat from being raced in the Tybee, then sold as a USED boat.


say it isn't so.

Is there truth to this Mr Miller?
ouch.....


I actually don't know the details, but I did hear that. I bet it had to do with improper importation by Hobie France. We can't even get one yet. I am sure sales didn't want France to allow importation of a new product outside the correct channels. We have very strict territory agreements. We have too to protect the Hobie trademarks World Wide.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
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