| Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: arbo06]
#181428 06/08/09 06:17 PM 06/08/09 06:17 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,911 South Florida & the Keys arbo06
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Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 1,911 South Florida & the Keys | Cuba rejects OAS invitation.... I guess they are not finished with the Human Righs violations and exploitation of the citizenry.
Eric Arbogast ARC 2101 Miami Yacht Club | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#181439 06/08/09 07:41 PM 06/08/09 07:41 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Have any of you actually contacted the organizers? It looks like they have done a lot of homework and planning.
It seems that rather than guessing about a lot of the parameters, it might be smart for y'all to be talking directly to the guy in charge.
I see much speculation but few facts here.
Just my observations:
That 95 miles can be a piece of cake or a malestrom.
There are plenty of beaches in Cuba.
I can't believe there are cat sailors who can't get their boat in without Cat Tracks. 4 guys can schlep a Tornado, 6 makes it easy. Maybe that's why all my old T buddies have bad backs now.
Anyway, lots of interesting talk here. I hope it happens.
And....yes you can spend greenback dollars. They love'em. They didn't used to take credit cards...probably do now. Again...check with the organizers.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#181447 06/08/09 08:02 PM 06/08/09 08:02 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 606 League City, TX flumpmaster
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Posts: 606 League City, TX | The waves that those H16's were in are nothing that can't be done on a nice, full bow'd N20. Or possibly even faster on a tricky narrow bowed F18 :P | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: flumpmaster]
#181449 06/08/09 08:09 PM 06/08/09 08:09 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | The waves that those H16's were in are nothing that can't be done on a nice, full bow'd N20. Or possibly even faster on a tricky narrow bowed F18 :P You even used the quintessential Tad tongue, nice. But your days are numbered.See ya in a week,you F-18 junkie.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Mugrace72]
#181450 06/08/09 08:12 PM 06/08/09 08:12 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
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Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | And....yes you can spend greenback dollars. They love'em. They didn't used to take credit cards...probably do now. Again...check with the organizers.
I thought it was our govt. that wouldn't let you spend greenbacks over there.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#181452 06/08/09 08:24 PM 06/08/09 08:24 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL |
I thought it was our govt. that wouldn't let you spend greenbacks over there.
That's sorta true but they can't really do anything about it and thats all the Cubans want. When we did the KW-Cuba race in 1980 I carried $34,000 over in a canvas sack on my J24 to pay for all they hotels and bus tours that we had arranged. US State Dept. and customs knew what we were doing and just said "have a good time". The next year when there was really bad weather, the boat carrying the money almost sank on the way over.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#181453 06/08/09 08:28 PM 06/08/09 08:28 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | I thought it was our govt. that wouldn't let you spend greenbacks over there. That's correct. The following is from www.righttotraveltocuba.org The Bush Administration has increased restrictions on our right to travel, systematically denying both individuals and groups with legal ways of going to Cuba. U.S. travelers are subject to serious charges and fines, yet to date no one who has stood up for their rights has gone to jail or had to pay the full penalties. Crjminal charges have been dropped, and in most cases, settlements have been negotiated or are awaiting appeal. By demanding our basic Constitutional Right to travel, we can make a difference!
In one of the U.S. government's most extreme cases to date, two Key West sailing enthusiasts faced up to 15 years in prison for organizing a sailboat race to Cuba's Hemingway Marina. Michele Geslin, 56, and Peter Goldsmith, 55, were indicted on charges of acting as unauthorized "travel service providers" for organizing a 2003 regatta for about 15 sailboats. The event was reportedly the ninth annual such regatta to Cuba, and in no way represented a threat to our 'national security' as alleged by the Department of Justice. All charges were dropped against the couple. Here is a more specific link: http://www.righttotraveltocuba.org/defending/victories_vs_travel_banIt's interesting to read all the incidents where people have been fined or threatened with jail. Also interesting to read all the information that you can find by googling: "Michele Geslin and Peter Goldsmith."
Last edited by Mary; 06/08/09 09:22 PM.
| | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Mary]
#181462 06/08/09 09:49 PM 06/08/09 09:49 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Federal rules quash boating trips to Cuba
By Jennifer Babson. jbabson@herald.com. Posted on Sun, Jun. 20, 2004.
KEY WEST - Almost everybody who has lived for any length of time at this end of an island chain knows somebody who has crossed the Florida Straits -- if they haven't made the trip already themselves.
Among those boaters is the city's colorful former mayor, Charles ''Sonny'' McCoy, now a county commissioner, who famously water-skiied to Cuba in 1978, and has returned by boat several times since.
Whether many of the Keys-to-Cuba trips taken by others were ''legal,'' well, that's another matter entirely.
For years, it was rarely an issue, because federal officials charged with regulating and enforcing the 42-year-old embargo against Cuba didn't vigorously examine pleasure boaters unless they were suspected of hauling contraband or cocaine.
At the dock, officials 'would say, 'Do you have any Cohibas?' and we'd say, 'We smoked them all on the way back!' '' McCoy said. ''Then they'd say, 'Next time, save us some.'' It was very light-hearted.''
But that jovial era may be over.
A series of new federal rules, regulations, and procedures have already begun to quash ''regular'' recreational traffic between Key West and Cuba, according to local boaters.
And the potential stakes for violating the embargo have risen sharply in the past two weeks.
On June 9, two Key West sailors, Peter Goldsmith, 55, and Michele Geslin, 56, were indicted on criminal charges that could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and up to 15 years in jail.
Their offense: allegedly violating the Trading With The Enemy Act by organizing and promoting a series of sailboat races between Key West and Cuba. Prosecutors say the pair were acting as unauthorized travel agents without a Treasury Department license.
Last week, the federal government released details of new Cuba embargo rules slated to go into effect at the end of the month. The changes would eliminate a controversial provision that has allowed boaters to visit Cuba as ''fully hosted'' guests of a nautical club operated by the Cuban government-owned Marina Hemingway, just outside of Havana.
MORE REQUIREMENTS
Within the next month, the Coast Guard is expected to release the details of more new requirements that would expressly bar from Cuban waters U.S. boaters who don't have an export license from the Commerce Department and a license from the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control, no matter where the trip to Cuba originated.
''We are not going to issue a permit until they can present the licenses from OFAC and Commerce,'' Tony Russell, a Miami-based Coast Guard spokesman, said. In the past, the Coast Guard routinely issued the permits regardless of whether vessels or the people on them were authorized by other federal agencies to visit Cuba.
Many local boaters feel an aspect of their way of life is under siege: after all, they say, Key West's geographical and cultural proximity to Cuba are a matter of history and tradition. But critics say the lax attitude toward boaters visiting Cuba has gone on too long.
Statistics and anecdotal evidence indicate that Bush administration promises to examine boat trips to Cuba more closely may have already had an impact.
The Coast Guard received 263 written requests for vessels to leave the Security Zone off Florida's Coast and enter Cuban waters between October 2002 and Sept. 30, 2003, according to Russell. Since Oct. 1 of last year, only 88 requests have been made. A tiny fraction of the requests was denied both years, he said, mostly because the applicants filled out paperwork incorrectly or inadequately.
American boats have all but dried up at Marina Hemingway, according to its commodore, Jose M. Diaz Escrich, who called the new rules "an artificial wall.''
''There has been a very substantial decrease -- practically we don't have the arrival of any American boats,'' he said, through a translator.
Though some of the new rules have yet to go into effect, they've already made some who would otherwise be inclined to go think twice or abandon their Cuba plans.
''I've been going for the past 10 or 12 years, but I didn't go this year,'' said Joe Mercurio, 61, captain of the charter boat Triple Time.
Mercurio said every time boaters figure out a way to comply with regulations, the feds throw them a curveball.
"First you couldn't spend no money, then they said you have to get an export permit license for the groceries you are taking over and eating yourself.''
Still, some wonder if the tough talk is a product of election-year politics they hope will fade in a matter of months.
''I know hundreds of people who have traveled to Cuba, almost thousands. I don't even know a single person who has ever been fined,'' said Craig Eubank, a Key West charter boat captain who has been to Cuba 37 times in the past 11 years, about 1/3 of them by boat.
While some boaters have sought U.S. government permission to make the trip, others have opted to make the trip without Coast Guard permission, though that's a risky approach.
''People in the Keys tend to do their own thing, like Hemingway did. He would just take his boat and go over there,'' said Eubank, who has a fiancée and 7-month old son in Cuba. Eubank, captain of the Mr. Z. sportfishing boat, said he has always gone to Cuba legally.
AN ISLAND'S APPEAL
Like many locals who've made the trip - which can take 20 hours by sailboat or five hours by powerboat - Eubank said the island holds a special appeal.
A number of boaters who've made the trip 'fully-hosted' admit they have spent money in Cuba but were careful to destroy the receipts. For many, though, the allure of sailing or cruising to Cuba has more to do with a desire to get to know an island that used to be a quick ferry hop away.
''It was our sister country for a long time, remember that,'' said one sailor, who did not want his name used. "It's probably hard for people in the rest of the country to understand that we are so close to Cuba.'' | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Mary]
#181469 06/08/09 10:27 PM 06/08/09 10:27 PM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M.
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Posts: 2,490 On the Water | Just an observation but that article was written 5 years ago.
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: P.M.]
#181472 06/08/09 11:04 PM 06/08/09 11:04 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Just an observation but that article was written 5 years ago. Yes, but, as far as I know, the same regulations are still in effect unless and until they are changed under the Obama regime. Maybe I should make it clear that I do not think the United States government has any right to tell me where I can or cannot go when I leave U.S. waters on a boat.
Last edited by Mary; 06/08/09 11:14 PM.
| | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Mary]
#181487 06/09/09 07:03 AM 06/09/09 07:03 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Just an observation but that article was written 5 years ago. What's that got to do with it mummp? It still applies. Yes, but, as far as I know, the same regulations are still in effect unless and until they are changed under the Obama regime.
Maybe I should make it clear that I do not think the United States government has any right to tell me where I can or cannot go when I leave U.S. waters on a boat. Thanks for the updates Mary. So...it looks like unless the administration changes things soon, it could be a little dicey. Everyone here is ramped up to do the race, but politics and organizational aspects are what will make or break this. Cat sailors are notoriously disorganized. Whoever this John A Webster is probably needs help and support. It would be nice to see what he has to say.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Mary]
#181489 06/09/09 07:06 AM 06/09/09 07:06 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Just an observation but that article was written 5 years ago. Yes, but, as far as I know, the same regulations are still in effect unless and until they are changed under the Obama regime. Maybe I should make it clear that I do not think the United States government has any right to tell me where I can or cannot go when I leave U.S. waters on a boat. Obama Eases Travel Restrictions to Cuba (April 13, 2009) and one more
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Jake]
#181490 06/09/09 07:18 AM 06/09/09 07:18 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | "Travel restrictions for Americans of non-Cuban descent will remain in place"Hopefully this will move forward quickly, but there will be some very heated debate in congress. I don't know why they can't just get over it.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Mugrace72]
#181567 06/09/09 02:56 PM 06/09/09 02:56 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | Robi's comment about how many people "make the trip" across the straights had me wondering how many ATTEMPT the trip across. He's got firsthand knowledge, and probably some anecdotal figures on those that DON'T make it all the way. Still, I think it'd be a trip to remember, even if it's on an 18.... And a week plan gives you a few days to play with for a weather window across...
Jay
| | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#181569 06/09/09 03:16 PM 06/09/09 03:16 PM |
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,718 St Petersburg FL Robi
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Posts: 2,718 St Petersburg FL | WHOA!!! WOW... He's got firsthand knowledge, and probably some anecdotal figures on those that DON'T make it all the way. Yep I do, some are hilarious some are not so much. Funny - we spoted a yola doing circles, there rudder got stuck to one side and they couldnt kill the engine. Sad - The mother that had no family in Cuba, her kids and husband were in Miami waiting for her, we intercepted her and she was scared for her life. Fudged - The Captain that yelled at me for talking with the "enemy" I have very serious thoughts on this entire Cuban embargo and how we handle it, but they are very personal and will not talk openly about it. I just do my job and save lives before the sea gets a hold of them.
Last edited by Robi; 06/09/09 03:18 PM.
| | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Robi]
#181573 06/09/09 03:58 PM 06/09/09 03:58 PM | andrewscott
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Unregistered | I have very serious thoughts on this entire Cuban embargo and how we handle it, but they are very personal and will not talk openly about it. I just do my job and save lives before the sea gets a hold of them.
and i am sure i speak for many when i say, "THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO" | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: Mary]
#181575 06/09/09 04:02 PM 06/09/09 04:02 PM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | Maybe I should make it clear that I do not think the United States government has any right to tell me where I can or cannot go when I leave U.S. waters on a boat.
You can go where ever you want.. you just may not be welcome back... | | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: ]
#181641 06/10/09 11:54 AM 06/10/09 11:54 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | kind of like "you can do whatever you want, as long as you don't get caught".. right?
I don't quite understand the duplicity of people's statement when they say "I don't want the government interfering with my life", when the government has already done so...
Does this statement imply that the speaker does not want law enforcement, municipal services, fire protection, ability to occupy/use land, defense against invaders, and other things offered (or more correctly "taken for granted") to citizens?
Or does it mean that "I only want the government to impose my sense of "right" on everyone else"?
That people have to live and interact together in some fashion virtually requires that some individual rights may have to be compromised in order to promote some sense of harmony, does it not?
I think there are very few who live completely "off the grid/radar" (maybe nomadic singlehand sailors or mountain men?) and are totally self-reliant.
sorry for getting so far off. I need to brush up on my spanish/cuban. Maybe start watching those Novellas on Univision?
Jay
| | | Re: Beach cat race to Cuba in 2010
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#181645 06/10/09 12:18 PM 06/10/09 12:18 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | I need to brush up on my spanish/cuban. It is called "Cubish" in Key West...and probably Miami too.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | |
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