"Looking ahead calmly..."

"Thoughtful course correction..."

I like it.

To get back on topic (and I had nothing to do with forming the F18 class) I do think that maybe the HCA One Design Policy forced a consolidation in catamaran sailing that contributed to the formation and growth of the F18 class.

Pat,

I think your comments are good and don't think there is any one thing that caused the decline of cat sailing. I think it will be hard for the HCA to ever get a foot hold on having large regattas on the local level again(southeast). I also think it will hurt cat sailing in general with Hobie only regattas on a local level. Why can't the manufactures have there own nationals and championships and let the local regattas be run with mixed fleets? When I bought my first H16 (1985) it was because some one took me out on their boat and got me hooked. If Hobie's are not sailing at local regattas how are you going to get people hooked? It is up to the sailors sailing their boats to help grow their class and get their class out sailing. Most of or regattas are at yacht clubs (southeast) and I can say the mono hull sailors sure do make comments about the spin boats like "those boats sure are fast", "I did not realize the cats could point so well", " I thought the cats would only reach".When catamarans are sailing with the mono hulls we are getting noticed and we may get some sailors to come over. Having a Hobie only regatta does not get you much exposure to new sailors and makes it hard to grow your class. If I could wave my magic wand the manufactures would have their nationals and regional championships and the local regattas and distance races would be split up in OD starts and the odd boats would have to race open. The OD fleets should work on their own class to get their numbers up and sailors coming to the regattas. Just my opinion.

Spot on !

That is the play book we're running by (F16's) and it seems to work well for us.

Quite often these days the F18's/N20's are gracious enough to share the start with us at local events and I think I have heard nothing but positive comments about that.

I'm convinced this is the best solution for everybody and the catamaran sccene as a whole. We for one are certainly not seeing any hit in sales because of it. Economic meltdown or not.


Regards,

Wouter

Dave, It would appear that when the alarmist and the and sky is falling crowd get removed from the equation, that both sides are not that far apart in theory. The practice is more difficult and will take time.
I work with a guy that talks about having "maddening patience" when these type of storms hit at work. When things die down, they are never as bad as people believe them to be.

I've been through the formation of the HCA, the comp tip issue, the X boat issue, the Hobie only enforcement, the scheduling of women and youth events,the cancellation of events(we had to cancel H21's in Syracuse),other smaller items,now the Wave issues.
I'm seldom convinced of anything and don't like absolutes.
The analyze and adjust approach seems to have better outcomes.

Regardless of how I might think, we have fleet meetings and take votes on agenda items. If that vote is 10 to 9, the 10 win and that is what is passed on to the division chair. The same is done at the division level among the fleets. The division chairs vote at the AGM. Some of the hot topics have spirited debates. They can win or loose by a single vote.
The Southeast and Northeast are obviously very different at the moment, but the divisions have an equal vote. Things may or may not change. If more divisions vote against something like having guest fleets at our events than are for it, then it doesn't change. It's a good system, but like our government, it doesn't make everyone happy.

If Hobie had only done this once, I might agree. They have done it at least 3 times that I remember. Hobie forced or engineered the Hobie Fleet to split from the MSA (late 70's early 80's), the purification of the Fleets in the mid 80's, and the Hobie only. There were probably more.

If you don't know history, you will repeat it and you will not know what it means when a manufactores rep pulls you aside at a nationals and asks you to go home and orgainize a SMOD Fleet.

The HCA-NA(formally NAHCA) didn't form until around 1990.
I'm sure Mr. B can give us the exact month and year.

This has become a far more rational and enjoyable thread to discuss these things.

My view of this is that comparing Hobie fleets to YCs is where the disconnect comes in. IHCA and HCC have communicated that they do not want Hobie fleets to use their resources to promote (ie host) events for other types of boats.

In the monohull world, YCs host events. They are able to host mixed-class events without upsetting the individual class associations or manufacturers, since they probably don't rely on them as heavily to support the events.

I admit that I may be fuzzy on the details of the YC side, but it seems pretty clear where the IHCA and HCC sit on this. Further, HCA has seen the value of bringing in results from multi-class events to the scoring system, so it really is a question of "What are the IHCA/HCA and HCC resources being used to promote?" In mixed-class events, this can be difficult to manage.

Mike

November 1988. Meeting held in Corpus Christi, TX. Wick Smith was elected the first NAHCA Chairman.

Too bad the YC aren't interested in hosting a beach cat regatta (regional/national level or higher). From what you say, they could get multiple box-rule and SMOD groups together at the same venue (and possibly in the same races - scored overall and SMOD), get multiple manufacture support/sponsorship, and certainly get interest generated in possible new members for the Yacht Club.

I guess if you were say, a Tiger, you'd have to choose whether to set up to race as SMOD or F18 when you registered, but those rock stars could probably register SMOD Tiger and still beat up on the "other" F18 fleet(s) to take home two pickle dishes...

I think you mean the other way around. The real difference between the Tiger Class Rules and the Formula 18 rules is that a Tiger can sail using a big sail plan at 309 lbs crew weight with no correctors. The Formula is 330 without corrector weights.

Yes. Thank you for the clarification. Didn't study those rules closely, since racing in this class would involve me getting my fat keister out of the car-seat equipped minivan (a true chick magnet, I can assure you ) and on to someone's boat...

Just this one?

Especially this one, as it would probably require me to shed about 25 lbs of aforementioned keister to be small enough to crew for some of you dudes.

Looks like the ideal weight for the front part of the boat is 155 lbs since the drivers are all 175+ it would seem...

The rest of the classes would only involve transfer of said keister (which is a monumental task in itself - not sure how you get all that free time like a certain Mr. Mom with the Capricorn)

Whats wrong with bieng MR. Mom ? And I run 255 but my crew is 105.
I hope to be down to 225 by end of next year.

Lets open this one up, shall we? Why would we call him "Mr. Mom"? His wife works, do we call her "Mrs. Dad"? My wife is a stay at home "mom" but works harder (more) than some of you guys surfin here! I sure won't trade places with her. Especially when our kids were younger (its getting easier now). I've got a few guys I know in the same situation, its not as easy as you think!

OK, JW went to bat for ya! Not that you needed it.

>>>Now how do I get a gig that lets me sail as much as you do?<<<

Clayton

Hey I'm a stay at home dad and we only have dogs. (no Kids) Now I got to go cook dinner for the wife , and do the laundry.
Then I got to put the new parts on my Tiger.

Actually it would be best to turn that around. To have a 155 lbs skipper and a 175 lbs crew. While going downwind you need the crew on the wire in a blow so more weight out is best. Going to weather you want the strongest person as the crew so they can play the mainsheet. Having said that I think that you can have more weight on the boat than you are giving credit for. Some of the designs can carry 360 as a combined crew weight just fine.

As for Mr M. Sometimes for the benefit of job security you need to chase across the country. One or the other parent has to choose to raise one's children or you pick a stranger do it. He has put his career on hold to support the efforts of his wife who is a really dedicated worker and seems to love her chosen occupation. Though he is not punching a clock he keeps pretty darn busy. Even without being able to say I am a "fill in the blank" right now, he is always working on something for some company or other. A bonus is that he is always in contact with his child. He was part of the family's decision to move from Paradise to.....well Paradise. I say Bravo for a courageous choice!

Later,
Dan

She reads the forums here huh?

The PNW has 4 major events that are F18 events (including a PNW championship at NOODs) and we are now even beginning two weekly series that have F18 starts one in BC and one in Seattle. Combined we have 25+ Tigers and NACRAs.

With regard to the post about Yacht Clubs - All PNW F18 events are sailed in conjunction with Yacht Clubs as to not overlap or be held to Hobie Class event rules. The Yacht Clubs that are supporitng PNW F18 are Seattle Yacht Club, Corinthian Yacht Club of Seattle, Royal Vancouver Yacht Club, and Bellingham Bay Yacht Club. None of these yacht clubs have ever had an issue with the F18 participating in any of the scheduled events, the fleet just has had to be proactive in communicating what we need for support and for courses. Getting into YC events has not been an issue for us. It does help to have a angel for the initial contact, fortunately our teams have been very well connected to the YC execs and they have in turn all but rolled out the red carpet - they loved the 12 F18s at the NOODs and the F18s were focal points both for SW and local press at the PNW champs. The editior of Sailing World was even scheduled to sail in our fleet but we got scrubbed for wind on day 1. The belief that we are not welcome is just plain wrong, you just need to sell the fleet and follow up with a good show.

With regard to sailing Tiger as F18 - we sail at 330lbs all year (having lost 40lbs combined) and have done well in both Tiger (308 min crew weight) and F18 (330 min crew weight) events across all wind conditions, the only thing we do differently for F18 is to change to a set of Glaser Sails - but both the Glasers and Hobie sails are F18 legal (and Max size legal).

Paul Andrepont
F18TeamBlur