Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Question [Re: rhodysail] #181444
06/08/09 07:54 PM
06/08/09 07:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
"Looking ahead calmly..."

"Thoughtful course correction..."

I like it.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Question [Re: John Williams] #181448
06/08/09 08:02 PM
06/08/09 08:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
rhodysail Offline
old hand
rhodysail  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
To get back on topic (and I had nothing to do with forming the F18 class) I do think that maybe the HCA One Design Policy forced a consolidation in catamaran sailing that contributed to the formation and growth of the F18 class.

Re: Question [Re: rhodysail] #181466
06/08/09 10:10 PM
06/08/09 10:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
addict
Dlennard  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Pat,

I think your comments are good and don't think there is any one thing that caused the decline of cat sailing. I think it will be hard for the HCA to ever get a foot hold on having large regattas on the local level again(southeast). I also think it will hurt cat sailing in general with Hobie only regattas on a local level. Why can't the manufactures have there own nationals and championships and let the local regattas be run with mixed fleets? When I bought my first H16 (1985) it was because some one took me out on their boat and got me hooked. If Hobie's are not sailing at local regattas how are you going to get people hooked? It is up to the sailors sailing their boats to help grow their class and get their class out sailing. Most of or regattas are at yacht clubs (southeast) and I can say the mono hull sailors sure do make comments about the spin boats like "those boats sure are fast", "I did not realize the cats could point so well", " I thought the cats would only reach".When catamarans are sailing with the mono hulls we are getting noticed and we may get some sailors to come over. Having a Hobie only regatta does not get you much exposure to new sailors and makes it hard to grow your class. If I could wave my magic wand the manufactures would have their nationals and regional championships and the local regattas and distance races would be split up in OD starts and the odd boats would have to race open. The OD fleets should work on their own class to get their numbers up and sailors coming to the regattas. Just my opinion.

Re: Question [Re: Dlennard] #181481
06/09/09 04:52 AM
06/09/09 04:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Quote

Why can't the manufactures have there own nationals and championships and let the local regattas be run with mixed fleets?



Spot on !

That is the play book we're running by (F16's) and it seems to work well for us.

Quite often these days the F18's/N20's are gracious enough to share the start with us at local events and I think I have heard nothing but positive comments about that.

I'm convinced this is the best solution for everybody and the catamaran sccene as a whole. We for one are certainly not seeing any hit in sales because of it. Economic meltdown or not.


Regards,

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Question [Re: Wouter] #181492
06/09/09 07:43 AM
06/09/09 07:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
pbisesi Offline
enthusiast
pbisesi  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
Dave, It would appear that when the alarmist and the and sky is falling crowd get removed from the equation, that both sides are not that far apart in theory. The practice is more difficult and will take time.
I work with a guy that talks about having "maddening patience" when these type of storms hit at work. When things die down, they are never as bad as people believe them to be.

I've been through the formation of the HCA, the comp tip issue, the X boat issue, the Hobie only enforcement, the scheduling of women and youth events,the cancellation of events(we had to cancel H21's in Syracuse),other smaller items,now the Wave issues.
I'm seldom convinced of anything and don't like absolutes.
The analyze and adjust approach seems to have better outcomes.

Regardless of how I might think, we have fleet meetings and take votes on agenda items. If that vote is 10 to 9, the 10 win and that is what is passed on to the division chair. The same is done at the division level among the fleets. The division chairs vote at the AGM. Some of the hot topics have spirited debates. They can win or loose by a single vote.
The Southeast and Northeast are obviously very different at the moment, but the divisions have an equal vote. Things may or may not change. If more divisions vote against something like having guest fleets at our events than are for it, then it doesn't change. It's a good system, but like our government, it doesn't make everyone happy.


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
Re: Question [Re: pbisesi] #181504
06/09/09 09:38 AM
06/09/09 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
Originally Posted by pbisesi
Sometimes when you need to clean the garage, you take everything out and start over. So the HCA did that and now needs to keep a close eye on what's happening everywhere( I think that is happening). What needs to be remembered is that there are bylaws and a process that can work to bring change.


If Hobie had only done this once, I might agree. They have done it at least 3 times that I remember. Hobie forced or engineered the Hobie Fleet to split from the MSA (late 70's early 80's), the purification of the Fleets in the mid 80's, and the Hobie only. There were probably more.

If you don't know history, you will repeat it and you will not know what it means when a manufactores rep pulls you aside at a nationals and asks you to go home and orgainize a SMOD Fleet.

Re: Question [Re: carlbohannon] #181507
06/09/09 09:51 AM
06/09/09 09:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
pbisesi Offline
enthusiast
pbisesi  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Syracuse,N.Y
The HCA-NA(formally NAHCA) didn't form until around 1990.
I'm sure Mr. B can give us the exact month and year.


Pat Bisesi Fleet 204
Re: Question [Re: pbisesi] #181514
06/09/09 10:30 AM
06/09/09 10:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
This has become a far more rational and enjoyable thread to discuss these things.

My view of this is that comparing Hobie fleets to YCs is where the disconnect comes in. IHCA and HCC have communicated that they do not want Hobie fleets to use their resources to promote (ie host) events for other types of boats.

In the monohull world, YCs host events. They are able to host mixed-class events without upsetting the individual class associations or manufacturers, since they probably don't rely on them as heavily to support the events.

I admit that I may be fuzzy on the details of the YC side, but it seems pretty clear where the IHCA and HCC sit on this. Further, HCA has seen the value of bringing in results from multi-class events to the scoring system, so it really is a question of "What are the IHCA/HCA and HCC resources being used to promote?" In mixed-class events, this can be difficult to manage.

Mike

Re: Question [Re: pbisesi] #181546
06/09/09 12:36 PM
06/09/09 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by pbisesi
The HCA-NA(formally NAHCA) didn't form until around 1990.
I'm sure Mr. B can give us the exact month and year.


November 1988. Meeting held in Corpus Christi, TX. Wick Smith was elected the first NAHCA Chairman.

Re: Question [Re: brucat] #181563
06/09/09 02:41 PM
06/09/09 02:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by brucat
In the monohull world, YCs host events. They are able to host mixed-class events without upsetting the individual class associations or manufacturers, since they probably don't rely on them as heavily to support the events.


Too bad the YC aren't interested in hosting a beach cat regatta (regional/national level or higher). From what you say, they could get multiple box-rule and SMOD groups together at the same venue (and possibly in the same races - scored overall and SMOD), get multiple manufacture support/sponsorship, and certainly get interest generated in possible new members for the Yacht Club.

I guess if you were say, a Tiger, you'd have to choose whether to set up to race as SMOD or F18 when you registered, but those rock stars could probably register SMOD Tiger and still beat up on the "other" F18 fleet(s) to take home two pickle dishes...



Jay

Re: Question [Re: waterbug_wpb] #181571
06/09/09 03:32 PM
06/09/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Quote
but those rock stars could probably register SMOD Tiger and still beat up on the "other" F18 fleet(s) to take home two pickle dishes...


I think you mean the other way around. The real difference between the Tiger Class Rules and the Formula 18 rules is that a Tiger can sail using a big sail plan at 309 lbs crew weight with no correctors. The Formula is 330 without corrector weights.

Re: Question [Re: Dan_Delave] #181642
06/10/09 11:57 AM
06/10/09 11:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Yes. Thank you for the clarification. Didn't study those rules closely, since racing in this class would involve me getting my fat keister out of the car-seat equipped minivan (a true chick magnet, I can assure you crazy) and on to someone's boat...


Jay

Re: Question [Re: waterbug_wpb] #181646
06/10/09 12:22 PM
06/10/09 12:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
... since racing in this class would involve me getting my fat keister out of the car-seat equipped minivan (a true chick magnet, I can assure you crazy) and on to someone's boat...


Just this one?

Last edited by Jake; 06/10/09 12:22 PM.

Jake Kohl
Re: Question [Re: Jake] #181661
06/10/09 03:27 PM
06/10/09 03:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Especially this one, as it would probably require me to shed about 25 lbs of aforementioned keister to be small enough to crew for some of you dudes.

Looks like the ideal weight for the front part of the boat is 155 lbs since the drivers are all 175+ it would seem...

The rest of the classes would only involve transfer of said keister (which is a monumental task in itself - not sure how you get all that free time like a certain Mr. Mom with the Capricorn)


Jay

Re: Question [Re: waterbug_wpb] #181670
06/10/09 04:05 PM
06/10/09 04:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Whats wrong with bieng MR. Mom ? And I run 255 but my crew is 105.
I hope to be down to 225 by end of next year.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Question [Re: waterbug_wpb] #181671
06/10/09 04:13 PM
06/10/09 04:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
old hand
Clayton  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb

- not sure how you get all that free time like a certain Mr. Mom with the Capricorn


smile Lets open this one up, shall we? Why would we call him "Mr. Mom"? His wife works, do we call her "Mrs. Dad"? My wife is a stay at home "mom" but works harder (more) than some of you guys surfin here! I sure won't trade places with her. Especially when our kids were younger (its getting easier now). I've got a few guys I know in the same situation, its not as easy as you think!

OK, JW went to bat for ya! Not that you needed it.

>>>Now how do I get a gig that lets me sail as much as you do?<<<

Clayton

Re: Question [Re: Clayton] #181673
06/10/09 04:30 PM
06/10/09 04:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Hey I'm a stay at home dad and we only have dogs. (no Kids) Now I got to go cook dinner for the wife , and do the laundry.
Then I got to put the new parts on my Tiger.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Question [Re: F-18 5150] #181683
06/10/09 08:00 PM
06/10/09 08:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Quote
Looks like the ideal weight for the front part of the boat is 155 lbs since the drivers are all 175+ it would seem...


Actually it would be best to turn that around. To have a 155 lbs skipper and a 175 lbs crew. While going downwind you need the crew on the wire in a blow so more weight out is best. Going to weather you want the strongest person as the crew so they can play the mainsheet. Having said that I think that you can have more weight on the boat than you are giving credit for. Some of the designs can carry 360 as a combined crew weight just fine.

As for Mr M. Sometimes for the benefit of job security you need to chase across the country. One or the other parent has to choose to raise one's children or you pick a stranger do it. He has put his career on hold to support the efforts of his wife who is a really dedicated worker and seems to love her chosen occupation. Though he is not punching a clock he keeps pretty darn busy. Even without being able to say I am a "fill in the blank" right now, he is always working on something for some company or other. A bonus is that he is always in contact with his child. He was part of the family's decision to move from Paradise to.....well Paradise. I say Bravo for a courageous choice!

Later,
Dan

Re: Question [Re: Clayton] #181694
06/10/09 10:52 PM
06/10/09 10:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Clayton
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb

- not sure how you get all that free time like a certain Mr. Mom with the Capricorn


smile Lets open this one up, shall we? Why would we call him "Mr. Mom"? His wife works, do we call her "Mrs. Dad"? My wife is a stay at home "mom" but works harder (more) than some of you guys surfin here! I sure won't trade places with her. Especially when our kids were younger (its getting easier now). I've got a few guys I know in the same situation, its not as easy as you think!

OK, JW went to bat for ya! Not that you needed it.

>>>Now how do I get a gig that lets me sail as much as you do?<<<

Clayton



She reads the forums here huh?


Jake Kohl
Re: Question [Re: Mark Schneider] #181695
06/10/09 11:20 PM
06/10/09 11:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
USA1273 Offline
journeyman
USA1273  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Tom

So... here we sit... Tiger one design sailing in Upstate New York and the Pacific Northwest. F18 sailing in the South and Southwest, growing in New England N20's going down and F18's going up .. and doing well on the Pacific coast existing with Tiger one design sailing. Oh.. and over time the CRAM sailors... moved on to nacra 17's along with an F18. CRAW has similar numbers of F18's and 20's.

The big hope is that the F18 worlds will really kick the class up a notch or so... Your stock Tiger is fully F18 compliant and perhaps the Wildcat gets some love from Hobie sailors as well to balance the number of Cap and Infusion fans.




The PNW has 4 major events that are F18 events (including a PNW championship at NOODs) and we are now even beginning two weekly series that have F18 starts one in BC and one in Seattle. Combined we have 25+ Tigers and NACRAs.

With regard to the post about Yacht Clubs - All PNW F18 events are sailed in conjunction with Yacht Clubs as to not overlap or be held to Hobie Class event rules. The Yacht Clubs that are supporitng PNW F18 are Seattle Yacht Club, Corinthian Yacht Club of Seattle, Royal Vancouver Yacht Club, and Bellingham Bay Yacht Club. None of these yacht clubs have ever had an issue with the F18 participating in any of the scheduled events, the fleet just has had to be proactive in communicating what we need for support and for courses. Getting into YC events has not been an issue for us. It does help to have a angel for the initial contact, fortunately our teams have been very well connected to the YC execs and they have in turn all but rolled out the red carpet - they loved the 12 F18s at the NOODs and the F18s were focal points both for SW and local press at the PNW champs. The editior of Sailing World was even scheduled to sail in our fleet but we got scrubbed for wind on day 1. The belief that we are not welcome is just plain wrong, you just need to sell the fleet and follow up with a good show.

With regard to sailing Tiger as F18 - we sail at 330lbs all year (having lost 40lbs combined) and have done well in both Tiger (308 min crew weight) and F18 (330 min crew weight) events across all wind conditions, the only thing we do differently for F18 is to change to a set of Glaser Sails - but both the Glasers and Hobie sails are F18 legal (and Max size legal).

Paul Andrepont
F18TeamBlur

Last edited by USA2477; 06/10/09 11:33 PM.

F18 USA 1273
Andrews 77 (SOLD) Melges 32 (SOLD) Formula18 Olympic 49er (FOR SALE)
Always outnumbered - Never outgunned....
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 650 guests, and 104 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1