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After World's Questions #185579
07/20/09 07:18 AM
07/20/09 07:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline OP
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Bajan_Bum  Offline OP
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Cutler Bay, Florida
The F18 World's thread sure did die suddenly. But I have a few questions.

1. As rich as this country (USA) is, why do we only have 2 teams?
2. What does the US need to do to place higher?
3. What's the difference between Silver and Gold fleets?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Bajan_Bum] #185588
07/20/09 10:26 AM
07/20/09 10:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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1. The USA has lots of good F18 teams, but only 2 had the time off work and money to ship boats and travel over there.
2. They need to sail better.
3. There are a couple races at the beginning of the regatta and Gold/Silver is established based on the finishes there, Gold fleet being the finishers in the top half of the total fleet.


Blade F16
#777
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Timbo] #185589
07/20/09 10:29 AM
07/20/09 10:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Tim said it all.

We only got three slots anyway - allocations are made based on each national class' membership count. NAF18 is pretty small, comparitively.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Timbo] #185596
07/20/09 11:58 AM
07/20/09 11:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline OP
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Bajan_Bum  Offline OP
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Cutler Bay, Florida
Originally Posted by Timbo
1. The USA has lots of good F18 teams, but only 2 had the time off work and money to ship boats and travel over there.

I thought I had heard that some European teams were pro. Is it that tough to find sponsorship in the US? A company or companies willing to pay for all expenses?

Re: After World's Questions [Re: Bajan_Bum] #185599
07/20/09 12:16 PM
07/20/09 12:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Originally Posted by Bajan_Bum
Originally Posted by Timbo
1. The USA has lots of good F18 teams, but only 2 had the time off work and money to ship boats and travel over there.

I thought I had heard that some European teams were pro. Is it that tough to find sponsorship in the US? A company or companies willing to pay for all expenses?


Chicken and egg problem...

Need to get good enough to get sponsers

Need sponsers money to get good enough....


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Bajan_Bum] #185600
07/20/09 12:18 PM
07/20/09 12:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Originally Posted by Bajan_Bum
Is it that tough to find sponsorship in the US?


Yes.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: After World's Questions [Re: John Williams] #185603
07/20/09 12:41 PM
07/20/09 12:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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If instead they were running a NASCAR race, no problem finding sponsors, but Sailing??

When is the last time you saw any catamarans racing on ESPN, ESPN2, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS? It's just not all that popular so that makes it very hard to go to any Big company and say, "Hey, if you front us about $50,000 we can put together a great boat and team, and go to Europe and...and...and people in Europe might see your name on our boat! Hu? No? Really? Hmmm...

You been watching the Tour deFrance? Name the American teams in it and who's on them...go ahead.

See? That's the problem.

And the TDF is ON TV every day, several times a day, on Versus network if you get it.

If you want big money to run a top notch program, you have to give your sponsor a reason to spend that money, that reason is "Exposure" ie. advertising via TV exposure. No TV = no exposure. How is he supposed to justify the expense if he's not getting anything back?



Blade F16
#777
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Timbo] #185604
07/20/09 01:16 PM
07/20/09 01:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline
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Kiel, Germany
As far as I know, the leading german team, brothers Helge & Christian Sach are not sponsered by anybody. They were sailing Capricorn till last year, and Christian told me that they have paid for it, possibly not full price, though. This year, they are on Infusion. I habe no information if they paid for the boat (in full) - but if so, that's it. As the other german teams they are just sailing for the fun of it ...

Kai


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Baltic] #185617
07/20/09 02:30 PM
07/20/09 02:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
Bajan_Bum Offline OP
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Bajan_Bum  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Cutler Bay, Florida
I got your drift now. I never could understand the philosophy or psychology of big money in some of the sports today. I can understand Nascar (though I'm not a fan) and TDF (still not a fan), but there are several others that I won't pay $1 to watch.

Be that as it may, as in other sports, the cat builders might have to start diverting some revenues into some form of advertising to get more people at least interested in cat sailing. In my 26 years of living in the US, I can't recall seeing one cat builder advertising catamarans anywhere in mass media. Sea Ray created their own program "Port-o-Call", which aired on the Water Channel. And Larson made a commercial "Great American Boater" look like a TV program. I cannot even find the Hobie dealer at the boat show, and if I do, there are no catamarans there.

So in my opinion, the cat builders will have to take part of the blame for the inability to generate sponsorships. Without advertising, I doubt very much there are going to be increasing numbers of catamaran enthusiasts, racing or recreational, to increase the popularity of the sport ... at least in the US. There are just going to be us trading up and/or buying new ones when the current ones get old.

Last edited by Bajan_Bum; 07/20/09 02:33 PM.
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Bajan_Bum] #185619
07/20/09 02:41 PM
07/20/09 02:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Ask John Casey about US sponsorship. He's spending his second season in the EU.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: After World's Questions [Re: John Williams] #185624
07/20/09 03:56 PM
07/20/09 03:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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Wow, They are sponsoring him to go to the EU?

laugh


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Mike Hill] #185625
07/20/09 03:58 PM
07/20/09 03:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
It was the only way to get rid of him.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Bajan_Bum] #185626
07/20/09 04:24 PM
07/20/09 04:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
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Doesn't it take someting more than sponsor ship to be a pro? Like a t-shirt I thought?


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Bajan_Bum] #185627
07/20/09 04:51 PM
07/20/09 04:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted by Bajan_Bum
I got your drift now. I never could understand the philosophy or psychology of big money in some of the sports today. I can understand Nascar (though I'm not a fan) and TDF (still not a fan), but there are several others that I won't pay $1 to watch.

Be that as it may, as in other sports, the cat builders might have to start diverting some revenues into some form of advertising to get more people at least interested in cat sailing. In my 26 years of living in the US, I can't recall seeing one cat builder advertising catamarans anywhere in mass media. Sea Ray created their own program "Port-o-Call", which aired on the Water Channel. And Larson made a commercial "Great American Boater" look like a TV program. I cannot even find the Hobie dealer at the boat show, and if I do, there are no catamarans there.

So in my opinion, the cat builders will have to take part of the blame for the inability to generate sponsorships. Without advertising, I doubt very much there are going to be increasing numbers of catamaran enthusiasts, racing or recreational, to increase the popularity of the sport ... at least in the US. There are just going to be us trading up and/or buying new ones when the current ones get old.


I agree and I have never understood why Hobie, Nacra and anyone else don't seem to advertise in all the outdoor sporting/camping/biking/hiking/kayaking/skateboard/Xgames, etc. type magazines. They only seem to advertise in the sailing magazines, which is preaching to the converted.

When I had my Nacra I wanted to buy a T shirt. None exist.

I wanted to buy a window sticker for my tow vehicle. None exist.

I wanted to buy a hat. None exist.

It's like they want to keep it top secret!

And the last Hobie dealer I talked to said he's selling just about 100% kayaks, Fishing Kayaks, not too many cats. So there you go.


Blade F16
#777
Re: After World's Questions [Re: Timbo] #185638
07/20/09 07:11 PM
07/20/09 07:11 PM
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Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
Quote
And the last Hobie dealer I talked to said he's selling just about 100% kayaks, Fishing Kayaks, not too many cats. So there you go.


Its not just the dealers that will tell you that.

Re: After World's Questions [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185642
07/20/09 08:43 PM
07/20/09 08:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 539
taipanfc Offline
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The US sailors haven't been good travellers in general I have found. Always been under represented at the F18 worlds. Look at Australia for example in comparison. 6 teams and over half of those paid their own way, and the Aussie dollar is weaker than the US too.

Also the same with the A-Cats. In 2007 the US hosted a well-attended worlds with approx 60 boats from the US and 40 from other nations (rough numbers and 6 or 7 boats from Australia). Next worlds in Jan09 in Australia and similar number of total entries, but no US boats!

Re: After World's Questions [Re: Chris9] #185644
07/20/09 09:17 PM
07/20/09 09:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline
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Santa Cruz, CA
Originally Posted by Chris9
Doesn't it take someting more than sponsor ship to be a pro? Like a t-shirt I thought?


Shoot, even my shop sponsors our "pro sailors" with t-shirts...






...accompanied by an invoice for $15.99+tax. grin

J

Re: After World's Questions [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185645
07/20/09 09:23 PM
07/20/09 09:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline
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Originally Posted by Undecided
Quote
And the last Hobie dealer I talked to said he's selling just about 100% kayaks, Fishing Kayaks, not too many cats. So there you go.


Its not just the dealers that will tell you that.


There are only a few of us hardcores (read: stupid) left that love sailing cats so much that we try to make our living primarily off of you sailors. Selling kayaks is sooooooooo much easier.

J

Last edited by SurfCityRacing; 07/20/09 09:24 PM. Reason: can't spell for crap
Re: After World's Questions [Re: SurfCityRacing] #185653
07/21/09 03:55 AM
07/21/09 03:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 285
C
Catfan Offline
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Catfan  Offline
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C

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Posts: 285
Some info from the web site Catamaran Racing about the 2009 F18 Worlds:

OVERALL RESULTS
No Sailno Name Boat
1 NED 3 De Koning Coen, Visser Thijs Infusion
2 GBR 1111 Rob Wilson, Lynch Marcus Shockwave
3 GBR 1204 Styles Hugh, West Ferdinand Infusion
4 AUS 8 Ashby Glenn, Howden William Wildcat
5 NED 1202 Larsen Gunnar, Dubbeldam Infusion
6 FRA 94 Mourniac J, Guyader Wildcat
7 FRA 9 Vaireaux Moana, Petit R Wildcat
8 FRA 88 Fequet Lo´c, Filippi Wildcat
9 FRA 111 Morvan Franšois, Vandame Mathieu Shockwave
10 NED 1 Macpherson Andrew, Derckson Herbert Infusion
11 GER 203 Sach Helge, Sach Christian Infusion
12 NED 1164 Larsen Sascha, Van Helden Christa Infusion
13 AUS 145 Goodall Greg, Goodall Brett Capricorn
14 FRA 5 Sellier Thomas, Moreau Fred Diam 3
15 GBR 887 Gummer Stuart, Crawford Ryan Capricorn
16 NED 7 Heemskerk Mischa, Tentij Bastiaan Wildcat
17 FRA 1169 Besson Billy, Jarlegan Arneaud Infusion
18 AUS 1 Booth Taylor, Bernier Jacques Tiger
19 FRA 1 Vauchel Camus , Lagarrigue Jeremie Mattia F18
20 ITA 10 Sorrentino Vincenzo, Longhi Guido Wildcat



Top 20 Boats
Infusion 7
Wildcat 6
Shockwave 2
Capricorn 2
Tiger 1
Mattia 1
Diam 3 1

Crew weight (top 20)
from 350 lbs to 385 lbs (around 160 to 174 kg)

at 2:57 PM 0 comments

Re: After World's Questions [Re: Catfan] #185654
07/21/09 04:24 AM
07/21/09 04:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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France

A quick per country analysis. From the top 20:

7 FRA
5 NED
3 GBR
3 AUS
1 GER
1 ITA

I'm impressed by the AUS results: Placing 3 of 7 in the top 20 is quite a good result (42%). A better result than the 7 out of 27 FRA (25%) or the abysmal 5 out of 37 NED (13%).

And not a BEL in sight, considering it was on their home water and that there was 34 BEL teams, quite a disappointment.

I guess the farthest the race is from your home country, the better the sailors become. Except for the US obviously smile


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