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TMS-20 #187071
08/05/09 12:59 PM
08/05/09 12:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Getting ready to Carbon Fiber inside of foam on the first 1/2 of main hull.

http://www.themanshed.net/tms-20-trimaran/stern/?g2_page=3


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: TMS-20 [Re: TheManShed] #194242
10/22/09 12:58 PM
10/22/09 12:58 PM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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Mike where did you get that combo router bit to put the cove and bead on the foam strips?...I can't find anything like it from my suppliers...and the internet search is as productive as searching for a needle in a hay stack. The closest thing I could find is a "Canoe Joint" router set(two bits) which only does a 1/4" radius (not the 3/8" that I need) and is over $100. Where did you get yours? And what, if any, particular name did they call it?

Regards,
Bob

Re: TMS-20 [Re: Seeker] #194287
10/23/09 06:18 AM
10/23/09 06:18 AM
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Google MLCS Woodworking and go to flute and bead router bits.

Re: TMS-20 [Re: LCD] #194289
10/23/09 07:06 AM
10/23/09 07:06 AM
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Thanks John...Just what I was looking for ...ordered it this morning...

Best Regards,
Bob

Re: TMS-20 [Re: Seeker] #201148
01/24/10 03:30 AM
01/24/10 03:30 AM
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TheManShed Offline OP
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Carbon Fiber and divinycell H60

Attached Files
P1010157.JPG (2283 downloads)

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 [Re: TheManShed] #201283
01/26/10 02:27 AM
01/26/10 02:27 AM
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Mike,
Did you prime the Divinycell before you appied the cloth? Did you use the full 350g/sq m as recommended for the H60? What did you use to prime it, clean epoxy or with filler?

Shane

Shane

Re: TMS-20 [Re: pilgrim] #203409
02/14/10 06:03 PM
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The first half of the hull was primed with epoxy mixed with 407 and it had been fared out - dried. The lay-up had a slight amount of 407 in the first application of cloth then the second layer of cloth was straight epoxy.

On the second half of the hull, which I will lay up in the next week or so, most of the hull is H-60 with some H-80 in the stress spots. Most of the hull is just bare foam since I used Gorilla Glue and was able to fare the hull very easy. I will skim the hull with epoxy and a slight amount of 407 then go back and start the lay-up of the first layer of carbon. Follow-up with the second layer with straight resin, and of course vacuum bag it out. All of this this will be done in one session.

The skim out bog is very runny. Usually I use one pump resin, one hardener, and a scoop of 407. For this bog I use 6-R, 6-H, and 1-2 of 407. Here is a pic of working the bog.

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P1010068.JPG (945 downloads)
working the bog into the cloth

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 [Re: TheManShed] #203497
02/15/10 01:26 PM
02/15/10 01:26 PM
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"The lay-up had a slight amount of 407 in the first application of cloth"
Mike...am I reading you correctly? Did you mix 407 with your resin to laminate? I sure hope not...

Best Regards,
Robert

Re: TMS-20 [Re: Seeker] #203679
02/17/10 04:07 AM
02/17/10 04:07 AM
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Roughly how much area can you laminate in a day?

Do you think 5m x 1.5m of 200g carbon is too big to layup in one go for a one man operation? I layed the entire outside of my F16 hull with one piece of cloth and I was so exhausted .... mixed up 400g batches of epoxy each time...I didnt do a great job but with that experience next time I hope to improve on my technique.

Re: TMS-20 [Re: pilgrim] #204098
02/22/10 12:19 PM
02/22/10 12:19 PM
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Yes I added a small amount of 407 with the epoxy during the lay-up of the first layer it helps stiffen the lay-up and fill any small holes in the foam. My NA recommended it. I made a few test panels and the panel with 407 mixed in was much stiffer then straight resin. Epoxy resin is slightly elastic and the bog helps make it stiffer. The amount of 407 is slight is not like Iím making a filler paste to a peanut butter thickness. The lay-up was vacuum bagged with two layers of the 200-gram carbon unidirectional cloth. Why do you seem so against it Robert?

I use 4 people for the lay-up of a 20-foot by 3-foot area with 2 layers of cloth; peel ply, bleeder cloth, and vacuum bag on a female mold with compound curves. I live in south Florida so the temperature and humidity is high. I use West Systems with the tropical slow hardener and it takes us about 2-3 hours to do the complete lay-up. We hand squeegee each layer of cloth to make sure it is saturated, the epoxy is worked through, and excess removed. Usually I have two on the lay-up and two mixing. The key is get it laid out before it starts to gel so the vacuum bagging will be effective. Your environmental conditions and speed of your hardener determine your working time. If you need help it is best to get somebody to be mixing small batches of epoxy for you and keep them coming. Yes it wears you out but with my team of 4 we cut through it pretty good and have time for beer afterwards.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 [Re: TheManShed] #204129
02/22/10 07:06 PM
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"Yes I added a small amount of 407 with the epoxy during the lay-up of the first layer it helps stiffen the lay-up and fill any small holes in the foam. My NA recommended it. I made a few test panels and the panel with 407 mixed in was much stiffer then straight resin. Epoxy resin is slightly elastic and the bog helps make it stiffer. The amount of 407 is slight is not like Iím making a filler paste to a peanut butter thickness. The lay-up was vacuum bagged with two layers of the 200-gram carbon unidirectional cloth. Why do you seem so against it Robert?"

I am aware of the flexibility of the epoxy resin...you can get different resins with different modulus of elasticity. Resin Research Inc. blends one specifically tailored to Carbon, Kevlar and S-Glass. My concern is strength of the laminate, not stiffness. The school of thought I am coming from is that the distance between the skins (thickness of the core) provides the stiffness. But, hey...everything is subject to change without notice right...LOL and if your test panels can increase stiffness while maintaining all the strength of a laminate without 407 all the better....

Regards,
Robert

Re: TMS-20 [Re: Seeker] #204169
02/23/10 11:17 AM
02/23/10 11:17 AM
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TheManShed Offline OP
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Robert,

The skins are just 2 layers of 200-gram cloth on most of the hull on each side of the foam. With the vacuum bagging the layers were compressed and the resin drawn through the lay-up but I understand your concern without vacuum bagging, a very thick resin, or a thick lay-up I could see it as a problem.



The resin with 407 in the picture was painted on the hull, carbon laid, squeegee, and next layer carbon lay-up, wetted out with straight resin, squeegee, and bagged.

I'm laying-up Saturday if you want to see the process extra help and thoughts are always welcome! We have a good time and grog for the crew once the work is done.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 [Re: TheManShed] #204216
02/23/10 09:19 PM
02/23/10 09:19 PM
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"The resin with 407 in the picture was painted on the hull, carbon laid, squeegee, and next layer carbon lay-up, wetted out with straight resin, squeegee, and bagged"

That answers my question...I have no issue with it next to the foam...I miss understood you, thinking that you used the filler between the layers of carbon.
Ten years ago I would probably come down to help, being married and being a care giver to two sets of elderly parents (in two different cities) kind of pairs down the time for such self indulgent activities these daysÖLOL.


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