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TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up #188191
08/16/09 11:17 PM
08/16/09 11:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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News from The Man Shed

TMS-20
We managed to get the inter hull bagged out the weather cooperated today. The last two weekends were spend in the final fairing of the hull, building the vacuum system, and rounding the chine as glass does not like sharp bends. I’d like to thank my wife for cooking and getting the beer. She also watched Craig’s son Adam today, it has been 18 years since we have had a two-year-old running around. Also thanks to my son Garrett, Craig Van Eaton (Cyber Speed), and Richard O’Connell.

The morning started out slow as I had some sanding to do because the bogg did not fully cure from the rain Saturday. We carried the hull out side and used some solar curing to speed things along. I spent a few hours sanding that was not expected. We had a bit of a go getting the bag to seal but besides that all went to plan. We spread a thin layer of epoxy mixed with thin layer of bogg (407) to get any pin holes and for extra secondary bonding. The rest of the lay-up was with straight epoxy.

A-Cat Mast
I had Craig do some sanding on the inside of the mast. I will work on the mast the rest of the week making and fitting the sleeve the finish by the weekend. A week from Monday I go in for Rotor Cuff Surgery and then I’ll be laid-up for 4-8 weeks.


Attached Files
Core design.JPG (216 downloads)
Bow holes.JPG (215 downloads)

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188192
08/16/09 11:23 PM
08/16/09 11:23 PM
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Palm Beach County
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Next...

Attached Files
Cockpot Sheer.JPG (208 downloads)
Mast bulkhead sheer holes.JPG (205 downloads)
Mast Bulkhead sheer

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188193
08/16/09 11:25 PM
08/16/09 11:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
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next...

Attached Files
Read deck lay out.JPG (204 downloads)
Lay-out
Rear Beam Sheer.JPG (200 downloads)
Rear Beam sheer
Craig Van Eaton (Cyber Speed) cutting Cabon Fiber.JPG (198 downloads)
Craig Cutting Carbon Cloth

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188194
08/16/09 11:35 PM
08/16/09 11:35 PM
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Palm Beach County
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Next...

Attached Files
Sheer holes bogged.JPG (197 downloads)
Sheer holes bogged out then sanded
Hull bogged with thin layer, bag under hull, first overlap.JPG (196 downloads)
Hull bogged first over lap
Mike aka The Man Shed smoothing the bog into the weave.JPG (196 downloads)
Mike aka The Man Shed filling weave

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188195
08/16/09 11:38 PM
08/16/09 11:38 PM
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Palm Beach County
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Next...Had to skip a few of the full size lay-up. All hands on deck for this step.

Attached Files
First full of two full size lay-ups.JPG (193 downloads)
First of two full size cloth lay-ups
Richie O and Craig with forward overlap.JPG (189 downloads)
Rich and Craig working forward overlap
Fitting the bleeder cloth over the peel ply.JPG (190 downloads)
Bleeder cloth

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188196
08/16/09 11:42 PM
08/16/09 11:42 PM
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Palm Beach County
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Attached Files
Vacuum collecter (Frog).JPG (187 downloads)
Intake for vacuum (Frog)
Dumd-dumg, liquid nails , and caulking.JPG (187 downloads)
Sealing the bag edges dumb-dumb, liquid nails, and caulking
Hook 'er up.JPG (187 downloads)
Hook 'er up

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188197
08/16/09 11:44 PM
08/16/09 11:44 PM
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Palm Beach County
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Attached Files
Few wrinkles but pulled a good vacuum.JPG (186 downloads)
Few wrinkles but this is South Florida we are use to wrinkles
Doing the job!.JPG (186 downloads)
Pulling it down

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188198
08/16/09 11:47 PM
08/16/09 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
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Palm Beach County
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Next...the Crew and special thanks to my Wife!

Attached Files
Part of the crew Richie O, Mike, Garrett.JPG (186 downloads)
Richie, Mike, and Garrett
Craig's son -The Adam Bomb- keeping busy.JPG (184 downloads)
The Adam Bomb

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188212
08/17/09 06:13 AM
08/17/09 06:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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Piss breath? Thats an awful nickname.

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188214
08/17/09 06:24 AM
08/17/09 06:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Mike, good luck with the shoulder.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: pgp] #188216
08/17/09 06:31 AM
08/17/09 06:31 AM
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Palm Beach County
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Photo edited--PB short nickname--Funny how people get nick names! My son was raising the ocean level after a day of sailing and Rich was swiming up on him to scare him because just a few yards away surf fishermen were catching sharks in the surf. As Rich said Boo my son asked how the water tasted. Nerves of steel my son or he had to go really bad not sure which?

We have pretty thick skin in Palm Beach

Last edited by TheManShed; 08/17/09 05:02 PM.

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188281
08/17/09 07:03 PM
08/17/09 07:03 PM
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Palm Beach County
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Bagging material pulled off. Learned a lot doing a 20 foot half hull for the first bagging job. The next side will go easier.

One thing about bagging you got to love the results well worth the extra effort!

Brown tint is from bogging material west 407 shinny area in front is actually wetted out.

Attached Files
carbon-1.JPG (181 downloads)
carbon-2.JPG (181 downloads)

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188284
08/17/09 07:28 PM
08/17/09 07:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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South Carolina
Mike! That looks great! Terrific job. Did you use a peel-ply or a perforated bleed layer? (Looks like peel-ply).

What's with the tubing on the exhaust of the pump? Are you seeing oil splash out?


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: Jake] #188290
08/17/09 08:15 PM
08/17/09 08:15 PM
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Jake Thanks!

Funny thing I used peel ply and I made a perforated bleed sheet out of 4 mil plastic that I was going to put over the peel ply - but we got so tied up in the moment that we put the felt right on the peel ply and forgot the 4 mil bleed sheet. It was a tug to get the peel ply off because the felt sucked up some resin, like it should, and stuck to the peel ply.

I was testing the pump and showing Craig how it worked when I was done I turned off the pump with a vacuum on the pump but had the valve open. It siphoned the oil out of the pump and into the manifold. I had to vacuum the oil back to the pump. I added some oil then and recovered some more. With the tube on the exhaust it spit a little oil, with the tube off it smoked. I used tropical slow hardener and let the pump suck for about 4 hours.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188298
08/17/09 09:44 PM
08/17/09 09:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by TheManShed
Jake Thanks!

Funny thing I used peel ply and I made a perforated bleed sheet out of 4 mil plastic that I was going to put over the peel ply - but we got so tied up in the moment that we put the felt right on the peel ply and forgot the 4 mil bleed sheet. It was a tug to get the peel ply off because the felt sucked up some resin, like it should, and stuck to the peel ply.

I was testing the pump and showing Craig how it worked when I was done I turned off the pump with a vacuum on the pump but had the valve open. It siphoned the oil out of the pump and into the manifold. I had to vacuum the oil back to the pump. I added some oil then and recovered some more. With the tube on the exhaust it spit a little oil, with the tube off it smoked. I used tropical slow hardener and let the pump suck for about 4 hours.


Mine does the same...this is apparently the difference between an $80 pump and a $600 pump (though I paid $200 for mine and it's the same as yours!).

When vacuum bagging carbon uni strips to my friend's basement wall (he a had a wall that was failing), we couldn't achieve enough vacuum to cycle the pump periodically and it was smoking (vaporizing?) the oil and spitting it all over the place...that's why I asked. We eventually switched to a $70 venturi valve running off a compressor and it managed to draw more volume at the same (reduced) vacuum level we were getting with the mechanical pump...but I don't know if the vaporizing oil was due to the lowish vacuum or just the constant running I was dealing with.


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: Jake] #188306
08/18/09 05:34 AM
08/18/09 05:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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You used carbon uni to fix a basement wall?

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: bvining] #188308
08/18/09 06:27 AM
08/18/09 06:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Portland, Maine
Jake makes his underpants out of bagged carbon. :P

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: bvining] #188311
08/18/09 06:35 AM
08/18/09 06:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by bvining
You used carbon uni to fix a basement wall?


Hee hee....yeah. It was under-constructed and used a 4" block and had a 40' horizontal buckling crack in the middle of it. It took several steps, but I vacuum bagged 8' strips of carbon uni to the wall vertically every 5 feet or so. It was $30k to excavate and rebuild the wall and $12k to pay someone to come do a similar carbon solution. I studied their process, improved on it, and fixed my buddies basement wall for under $1k....but enough of that hijack.

http://www.teamseacats.com/index.php?s=basement


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: Jake] #188313
08/18/09 06:45 AM
08/18/09 06:45 AM
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Palm Beach County
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Most of the people I spoke with when I was studying the process told me their pumps smoked. What I found is that when the pump was “sucking” it would smoke once it achieved full vacuum it would not.

In the bagging of the hull when I closed the valve to the pump to see if it would keep a vacuum it fell faster then the US economy so the pump was really “sucking” I was hoping the feds would show up and throw money at me, er well I’m not a bank or auto maker. When are they going to bail out the sailors look at the costs of boats and sails!


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 Update Inter Hull Lay-up [Re: TheManShed] #188318
08/18/09 07:39 AM
08/18/09 07:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
That makes good sense...if it's achieved full vacuum, there's really no air leaving the pump to take the oil vapor with it.


Jake Kohl
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