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Re: rope clutch issue [Re: pepin] #190655
09/09/09 04:06 PM
09/09/09 04:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline OP
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davefarmer  Offline OP
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WA, ID, MT
Excellent, many thanks!

D

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: rope clutch issue [Re: pepin] #190657
09/09/09 05:30 PM
09/09/09 05:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171
Cary, NC
Storz Offline
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Storz  Offline
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Posts: 171
Cary, NC
Wow really cool looking boat! Who makes it?


Ryan
1983 Isotope
Re: rope clutch issue [Re: davefarmer] #190659
09/09/09 05:43 PM
09/09/09 05:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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pepin  Offline
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France
Let us know how you end up doing it I'm curious.

I like the extreme 40 system described by Kennethsf:

* it's elegant,
* it reduces the compression on your mast by half
* You can inspect the state of the halyard where the jammer grabs it every time you raise the sail and fix the issue by cutting an inch of it
* you can buy a cheap halyard and just splice in a short length of expensive high-tech no stretch halyard. Or just live with the cheap halyard, after all it is only going to stretch over a feet or so...

There are downsides:

* you will need two lines inside your mast. The small control line and the halyard. With all the fouling risks it involves between the two.
* you will need to setup a way to lock the control line under tension to lower the main.
* the jammer is all the way up there at the top of the mast, preventive maintenance is your friend!

Also, your halyard with the cover destroyed is not wasted yet. From the break in the cover to the main head just remove the cover; Milk the cover at the bottom of the halyard back in place then bury it inside the vectran (taper it well, and I'd probably lockstich it as well, just to be safe), cut 5 to 10cms from the top so the easylock grabs on the cover when the sail is all the way up.



Nice looking boat BTW.

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: pepin] #190674
09/09/09 09:45 PM
09/09/09 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline OP
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davefarmer  Offline OP
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The boat was designed and built by Malcom Davy, a Kiwi in Kelseyville, CA, whose buisness if primarily boat restoration. But he's had some offshore experience on multihulls, and the kind of guy alway intrigued by a great idea. He built this boat to try out a bunch of construction technique and design concepts. He built a 24'cylinder mold, created 4 hull halves, joined them deck and keel, and tortured the bows and sterns into appropriate shapes. The boat has assymetrical daggerbds, one side dead flat, that need to be switched each tack/jibe. A rotating wing mast constucted out of wood/epoxy(and now a carbon wrap, long story!). A unique pod that runs down the center of the tramp between the main and rear beam that provide great storage. It continues fwd of the main beam and gracefully tapers into the spin pole. Deck launch assym spin and a furling screacher that make the boat a light air monster. When first completed the boat weighed 600 lbs, but then Malcom added the pods, and added material to the sterns to reduce their dragging. And I've probably added 50 to 75 lbs in repairs/reinforcements. Might be at 800 lbs now, still mighty light for a 24' boat. He built it light knowing that he'd find the weak points in time. Although he didn't sail it much, and that job has fallen to me. Amazingly balanced for a boat designed by the seat of the pants, the dggbds and rudders work beautifully together, light helm. I sail the boat solo most of the time, a true rush flying a hull on a boat this size.
Pepin, I too like the elegance of the clutch at the top of the mast. But I don't think I have the room up there. The mast tapers near the top, and the main hlyd exits maybe 3" from the top. I'd have to re engineer the top of the mast to get the room and solid anchoring for a clutch, maybe a future project.
I hope to return to Flathead this weekend and rig something, sailing season is drawing to a close for me, and every weekend is precious. I'll take some pics for futher consultation. I truly enjoy getting to benefit from all the input you guys offer!

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: davefarmer] #190750
09/10/09 01:11 PM
09/10/09 01:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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Kennethsf  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
dave,
first => nice boat
2nd=> in/on the VX40/Extreme40 the clutch is attached to the "back" of the mast, It is bolted trough the mast and the mast track - very simple and strong solution - [the VX40 has a track and car type of system for the main]
The mast at the VX40 is open at the top so "easy" access. I think the vx40 mast are not tappered and I could get my hand inside to get the lines out [I helped the crew to swap the damaged mast - and got a ride in return- very cool]

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: Kennethsf] #190773
09/10/09 05:11 PM
09/10/09 05:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline OP
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davefarmer  Offline OP
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WA, ID, MT
Thanks Kenneth.
My mast track stops just below the exit blk, and the mast above the exit blk is only about 3" tall, and a few inches front to back. I could reconstruct the whole masthead I guess, and move the exit blk down a bit, and make sure there was sufficient holding for the clutch. How is the trip line routed on the 40s? I share Pepin's concern for the potential for the trip line and the hlyd to foul each other inside the mast. Maybe the trip line could be run thru some plastic tubing that would run the length of the mast.
I'm envious, I'd love a ride on one of those!

Dave

I'll take pics of the masthead as well as the mast base, I'm headed there tomorrow afternoon.

Last edited by davefarmer; 09/10/09 05:11 PM.
Re: rope clutch issue [Re: davefarmer] #190828
09/11/09 02:13 PM
09/11/09 02:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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Kennethsf  Offline
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Posts: 133
The Netherlands
I think the trip line is routed via a small block on the inside front of the mast - not 100% sure - but seems logical

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: Kennethsf] #190951
09/14/09 03:01 PM
09/14/09 03:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I was thinking "cheap guy" solution:

Install masthead hook like smaller beach cats

Install snap shackle to main. Run emergency release line attached to shackle down mast.

Tie red "Emergency Pull" handle to release line. Sail will come down.

Probably not good for reefing, but maybe add a second shackle on a short strap (3') to lower main to reef point? Don't know how you'd hook both shackles to the masthead hook, but ....


Jay

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: waterbug_wpb] #190984
09/14/09 09:30 PM
09/14/09 09:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline OP
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davefarmer  Offline OP
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Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Jay,
That's a great idea, I think that would work. Even reefing could be arranged. One downside is the release line messin' with the airflow over the mast/sail, although it might be hard to determine how significant that is. There's also the possible complication of not being able to see up 36' easily. And I'll post a pic of the mast tip, there's just not a lot of material up there, and its not clear how solid/strong it is. The mast construction is a bit of a mystery.
Plus, I've moved the Easylock to the main beam, and installed a horn cleat in it's place on the mast. I'll try this for a while, although your suggestion is more elegant. Thanks!

Dave

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: davefarmer] #191038
09/15/09 10:43 AM
09/15/09 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by davefarmer
One downside is the release line messin' with the airflow over the mast/sail


Maybe run the release line inside the mast?


Luiz
Re: rope clutch issue [Re: Luiz] #191051
09/15/09 11:50 AM
09/15/09 11:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline OP
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davefarmer  Offline OP
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Yeah, thanks Luiz. Possible, but it might foul with the main hlyd, as Pepin mentioned. Maybe I could run the release line in a long pc of plastic tubing.
Maybe not, seems like the trip line needs to pull downward on the snap shkl to get it to release. And if the trip line ran inside the mast, I'd need to be pulling on the trip line as I hoisted the main. Sounds complicated.....

Dave

Attached Files
mast tip1.jpg (102 downloads)
Re: rope clutch issue [Re: davefarmer] #191057
09/15/09 12:39 PM
09/15/09 12:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
okay, so the snap shackle needs a downward pull, and you can't realistically route it through the mast.

Would having a sleeve sewn in to the bolt rope or luff of the sail work? Even strong fishing line should be able to do the trick if the downhaul is released before pulling the snap shackle...

I can't imagine that the release line needs to be that big


Jay

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: waterbug_wpb] #191072
09/15/09 05:25 PM
09/15/09 05:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline OP
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davefarmer  Offline OP
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WA, ID, MT
Yeah, a sleeve is a good idea. And you're right, not much of a line needed, maybe leech line, or 1/12" Exel Pro or something similiar. I'll chat with my sailmaker. Thanks Jay!

dave

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: davefarmer] #191129
09/16/09 03:19 PM
09/16/09 03:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
you're welcome. I hope it (or something similar) works out for you! Whatever gets you out sailing more....


Jay

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: waterbug_wpb] #191131
09/16/09 03:37 PM
09/16/09 03:37 PM

A
andrewscott
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andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
you're welcome. I hope it (or something similar) works out for you! Whatever gets you out sailing more....

your pretty sharp for a land lubber...

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: ] #191262
09/18/09 09:35 AM
09/18/09 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by andrewscott
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
you're welcome. I hope it (or something similar) works out for you! Whatever gets you out sailing more....

your pretty sharp for a land lubber...


go figgr... smile

Once the kids are old enough to swim when I flip the dang thing, I won't be a lubber for long! smile


Jay

Re: rope clutch issue [Re: davefarmer] #191465
09/21/09 11:36 AM
09/21/09 11:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline OP
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davefarmer  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
So here's the current(temporary?) solution. The rope clutch has been replaced with a Schaefer jam horn cleat mounted in it's place at the base of the mast. When raising the main, it runs alongside the cleat to the turning blk mounted to the main beam below the mast, then to the rope clutch now also mounted on the main beam, then to another turning blk that allows me to stand at the mast feeding the slugs into the track while pulling on the hlyd. I'm currently using the core of the destroyed hlyd, which doesn't hold all that well in the clutch. I'll replace it with a new T900 line in the spring when the boat budget will (hopefully) be in better shape.
When the main is at full hoist, I have to release the rope clutch and transfer the hlyd to the horn cleat, which is a bit of a bear in the tight space, but doable. I lose and inch or two of hoist in the process, but there's sufficient downhaul range to accomodate.
Thanks for all the advice boys! She'll finish out the season in this trim, and I'll contemplate improvements over the winter.

Dave

Attached Files
rope clutch 006.jpg (27 downloads)
rope clutch 004.jpg (27 downloads)
rope clutch 007.jpg (27 downloads)
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