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How common is "licensing" #195237
11/03/09 01:29 PM
11/03/09 01:29 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
We have a huge discussion going on here in Norway these days. The sailing association dont have enough money they say to do what they want to do. So there is a proposal that everybody who participates in regattas have to buy a "license" to compete.

For personal licenses you get a small insurance that cover damages to a certain extent. Has to be renewed yearly.
Big boats will be required to pay a license fee for each series or event they participate in.

Personal license is proposed to be NOK330 (US$57)
A series/event fee for boats where the any crew dont have personal license is proposed to be NOK150 (US$26)

The license is of course in addition to club membership and regular insurance.


Is this kind of solution common in other countries?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #195239
11/03/09 01:43 PM
11/03/09 01:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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ThunderMuffin  Offline
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T

Joined: Jan 2008
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Portland, Maine
This sounds a lot like what US Sailing tried to do with mandatory membership.

Its bullocks. Elect new leadership that are better stewards of your fees and know what its like to NOT spend other peoples' money.

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #195241
11/03/09 01:44 PM
11/03/09 01:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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pgp  Offline
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Never heard of it before. U.S. Sailing was trying to make membership mandatory, last year. Apparently that policy has been dropped.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: pgp] #195242
11/03/09 01:47 PM
11/03/09 01:47 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2003
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West coast of Norway
Membership is already mandatory, this is on top of that if you want to go racing.

So it is not used in the US, how about other countries?

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #195244
11/03/09 01:57 PM
11/03/09 01:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
In France all the sailing clubs are affiliated to the FFV (Fédération Française de voile). When you pay your club membership you top up with a license fee for the FFV (Last time I looked it was in the order of €8/year or so). This fee gets you a huge liability insurance cover for everything regarding racing and rescuing, and it's definitely worth the 8 euros. By being affiliated, the club also get insurance cover for its activity. French clubs do require FFV membership to participate in their regattas, or can sell you temporary membership into their club which include a temporary license as well with full insurance coverage (For international events and if you are from another country, you may present proof of insurance instead).

In the UK my club pays am affiliation fee to the RYA, but I don't need to be a member of the RYA myself.

Same thing in the US, you don't need to be a member of US Sailing unless you want to compete in some national events organized and paid for by US Sailing, or want to compete in the Olympics.

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #195246
11/03/09 02:16 PM
11/03/09 02:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
We have a huge discussion going on here in Norway these days. The sailing association dont have enough money they say to do what they want to do. So there is a proposal that everybody who participates in regattas have to buy a "license" to compete.

For personal licenses you get a small insurance that cover damages to a certain extent. Has to be renewed yearly.
Big boats will be required to pay a license fee for each series or event they participate in.

Personal license is proposed to be NOK330 (US$57)
A series/event fee for boats where the any crew dont have personal license is proposed to be NOK150 (US$26)

The license is of course in addition to club membership and regular insurance.


Is this kind of solution common in other countries?


US Sailing uses a different motivator to encourage membership in the US. Clubs that belong to US Sailing (and also receive a reasonable insurance policy in return) are asked to provide a $5.00 US discount on the entry fee of their regattas for individual US Sailing members. Though it's presented as a discount, in reality, most clubs charge what they need to cover the costs of the regatta including the discounts. Non US Sailing members pay a little more to participate in the regatta.

At the end of the day, my US Sailing membership usually costs me very nothing after all the discounts I get at regattas throughout the year...but that's usually thanks to the non-US Sailing members that participate at regattas (in a really round-about way).


Jake Kohl
Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #195249
11/03/09 02:27 PM
11/03/09 02:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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Tony_F18  Offline
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Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Membership is already mandatory, this is on top of that if you want to go racing.

So it is not used in the US, how about other countries?

In Holland it is also mandatory to have a so called "Start License" if you want to compete in races (on top of the regular membership).
There is only one needed per boat for the "responsible person", which is usually the owner/skipper.

Officially it is there to support their activities surrounding races etc, but they introduced it when they where short on ca$h, coincidence?
http://translate.google.com/transla...&sl=nl&tl=en&history_state0=

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Tony_F18] #195262
11/03/09 04:07 PM
11/03/09 04:07 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
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West coast of Norway
How much does the "start license" cost and what are the benefits besides being allowed to start?

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #195265
11/03/09 04:13 PM
11/03/09 04:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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Tony_F18  Offline
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Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
How much does the "start license" cost and what are the benefits besides being allowed to start?

Costs are € 29,35 p/y annually
No real benefits that I can think of actually, but maybe behind the scenes, who knows?
Round Texel has an exemption of the starting license for people who enter as Silver Fleet (recreational sailors).

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Tony_F18] #195273
11/03/09 04:39 PM
11/03/09 04:39 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Thanks Tony. Sounds like the Netherlands and Norway are heading the same way..

Pepin, the french deal sounds like a real win/win combination!

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #195290
11/03/09 07:34 PM
11/03/09 07:34 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Australia has a similar situation. Compulsory membership with the return being insurance.

Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: ] #195327
11/04/09 08:20 AM
11/04/09 08:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
Baltic Offline
enthusiast
Baltic  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Kiel, Germany
No such thing in Germany. As far as I know, my club is paying a fee to the DSV (Deutscher Seglerverband) but I don't know of any benefits for me as a sailor, as far as any insurances are concerned.
I am free to join any regatta, but the german F18 class association runs an annual list of the best helmsmen / crew and you only appear on this list if you are a member.


F18: C2 / A-Cat: Minelli
Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: Baltic] #195416
11/05/09 07:12 AM
11/05/09 07:12 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
CatSailingHu Offline
journeyman
CatSailingHu  Offline
journeyman

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 96
Budapest, Hungary, Europe
In Hungary we are in a small club (26 sailors only), the club itself (have to be) member of the National Sailing Association (MVSZ).

The club has to pay to MVSZ: 778 USD/Y.
The members pay for "race license" 48 USD/Y (x 26 member) = 1242 USD/Y

It is all together 2020 USD/Y, == 78 USD/Member/Y

For that fee we do not get back any kind of insurance or race entry discount, or similar.

From the next year there is a new regulation of the races.

- organizers have to pay license fee to the MVSZ (2-3 USD / competitors, ISAF classes do not have to pay)
- For that fee the MVSZ publish the race in the official race calendar, publish the result on the web, and the most important, give the right of using the Racing rules of sailing,...

- Additional fee will be apply if there are advertising stickers on you boat or sails...This is 200-400 USD/Year, but the regulation is so complicate, I'm still not sure who has to pay and who not.

Seems to be we have the most expensive membership worldwide.



Sanyi
Nacra Infusion
www.catsailing.hu
Re: How common is "licensing" [Re: CatSailingHu] #195459
11/05/09 02:59 PM
11/05/09 02:59 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Thanks guys.
The sailing assoc. wants to use the money raised by the "license" to pour even more money into the programs aiming for the games. 50% or even more (accounting is an art really, if you want it to be) already goes into those programs so I am a bit steamed by it all. The small club I sail at will surely notice a drop in participation under the new "license regime".


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