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TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed #196409
11/15/09 06:06 PM
11/15/09 06:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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It has been some time since Iíve posted anything on the TMS-20 and The Man Shed so Iíd thought Iíd post an update.

Shoulder Repair
Iím back at it but a bit slower pace since my surgery. Iím off pain pills so the shoulder is sore but the Doc gave the go ahead to start lifting and work it out. How better to work out the kinks then to long board. Hold on moon doggie not the long 60ís surfboard type; I canít even sail yet - but a thin piece of wood with sand paper glued to it. A boat builderís friend for a fare curve from a noble plan as Jimmy Buffett says. Still going to PT I swear they would be Nazis at a different time in history, but it helps so in PT pain is good.

A-Cat Mast Repair
A-Cat mast came out good. I ended up not vacuum bagging the mast. The vacuum bag had a tendency to wrinkle the cloth on the tight curve. So I did a hand lay-up using peel ply. When sanding out the first break getting ready for lay-up we found a second crack and a little sanding on it put the mast in two sections again. Not the plan but better in the shop. Again right where the inside of the mast stepped down from 5mm to 2.5mm with a hard step. I had to make a double sleeve again. I changed my design some and it was a bit easier. I also picked up a $30 in line laser level from home depot and spotted, at dusk, down the sail slot all the way down the mast when I glued the sleeves together to make sure the tip was straight - that worked really slick. The batteries in the camera were dead so I never got a final picture. My final words Ė Make sure you paint the mast this time!

TMS-20
I did some pricing to see if I could get the molds for the AMAís cut on a CNC machine from wood or foam. This is big bucks! I found one local shop that would do it but charge me $3,500 per hull half. We dickered around some and he said he would do both for $3,800 but still seems like too much for a prototype boat. That kind of blows my budget but it is a really cool idea. At work we do small parts but nothing very large. If anybody has any connections in the CNC world let me know. I have not ruled it out but Iíd like to half that cost or less. If I was going into production and making molds with a decent budget it is surely the way to go. Sanding even with air sucks.

Iíve been faring out the starboard main hull half and it is starting to take shape. The flair in the hull has been a lot of work but it is finally starting to shape up and fare out. I ended up wrapping sandpaper around a can West Systems powder and it gave me the radius I needed. Some may question why Iím faring out the foam before I glass. It is easier to sand epoxy with powder (bog) then glass and no itchy nights from the bog. Plus the Carbon skins are just 2 layers of 200gram carbon cloth not much to sand there. The bog for you West fans is epoxy with 407 powder. The 407 bog is a little hard to sand but it is slightly structural and has excellent bonding strength.

Iíve also reset the strong back re-leveled it and Iím flipping the stations for the port side. Kurt Hughes has a good trick for this. Do every other one this way you do not have to re-square all the stations as this method keeps the spacing. You just have to check that every thing is level side to side and fore to aft. I have half of the station flipped and perhaps by the end of next weekend I have the other half flipped. Then Iíll be ready to start cutting foam and do this bloody thing all over again.

Later- The Man Shed

A few pics for those interested I'll be updating the website.



Attached Files
P1010012.JPG (285 downloads)
Faring tools
P1010145.JPG (284 downloads)
Starting to fare out the hull
P1010007.JPG (285 downloads)
Getting closer to fare

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196412
11/15/09 06:20 PM
11/15/09 06:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Few more pics....

Attached Files
P1010146.JPG (278 downloads)
More early pics
P1010017.JPG (277 downloads)
Flipping stations
P1010008.JPG (273 downloads)
Bow view
Last edited by TheManShed; 11/15/09 06:21 PM.

Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196419
11/15/09 08:36 PM
11/15/09 08:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
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Nice work Mike! Where did you get the pneumatic long board? And when do you use is as opposed to the manual board? Thanks!

Dave

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: davefarmer] #196432
11/16/09 06:54 AM
11/16/09 06:54 AM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91773

I was thinking of picking one up for my next bottom job. I think it might be "too much" though for just sanding bottoms.

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #196433
11/16/09 07:08 AM
11/16/09 07:08 AM
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pgp Offline
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At $30 I'm guessing it's junk. Those things take a beating and you'll go through more paper than you imagine. Not a good tool for the casual bottom job, imo.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: davefarmer] #196434
11/16/09 07:10 AM
11/16/09 07:10 AM
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Dave,
The In line air sander is from Harbor Freight Sales. It ranges from $19.95 to $39.95 if you are going to do much sanding definitely buy the $20 two-year free replacement service protection. I'm on my 3rd and 4th sander. The first two blew out in about 10 hours. I'm thinking that if you drop them that is certain death to the sander. The third one was going good then I started to sand the edge without sandpaper (stupid me) on the foot and ripped the rubber up. So I bought another one as a spare. With the service plan they are really good about replacement. At a regular body shop supply store you would pay $200-$300 for a sander so I don't mind going through a few and we have a Harbor Freight in town.

I start with the in line air sander to rough out the surface. The bog gets very hard so I can get away with 40-grit sandpaper and the air sander. That may be good for several applications of bog as you start to shape it out. You can remove a lot of material so you have to keep it moving evenly over your work. I use the pencil to scribble all over the surface. Then switch to the long board. The low spots will still have the pencil carbon so you can see where you need to fill or sand more.

At a point you switch to the long board you can tell when the air tools have reached your maximum effective point. You will be at a point where it is not getting any smoother or you are just adding bog and sanding it off. Some people stop at this point, then some carry it out further. Iíve been around this type of work as a hobby for 30 years so I can get close by air tools. But 20 foot long you need to board it out. You can buy the sandpaper in rolls to save costs then just cut your own strips it is sticky backed so you do not have to mess with the clamps.

Mike


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196435
11/16/09 07:15 AM
11/16/09 07:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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For just a casual bottom job use a palm sander they vary in price the one in the picture was close to $300 but it is top of the line. You can sand all day and your wrist will not burn and I've had it for 5 years.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196436
11/16/09 07:18 AM
11/16/09 07:18 AM
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TheManShed Offline OP
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One note the in line sanders are air hogs you need a good 60 -90 psi constant supply. I still need to give my big system a rest.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196439
11/16/09 07:33 AM
11/16/09 07:33 AM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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I used a regular longboard sander last winter and got great results.... (before brett's boat dragged mine across the parking lot)

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #196440
11/16/09 07:41 AM
11/16/09 07:41 AM
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TheManShed Offline OP
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Parking lot sanding? ouch!!!!


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196448
11/16/09 08:18 AM
11/16/09 08:18 AM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Yeah....

Before:
[Linked Image]

After is too graphic for young audiences.

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #196458
11/16/09 09:43 AM
11/16/09 09:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I know both of you know this but the discussion is not giving proper focus on what a long board really does; to properly fair a surface, the long board needs to be slightly flexible to contour to the gentle curve of the hull. Most pneumatic sanders are not flexible.


Jake Kohl
Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: Jake] #196474
11/16/09 11:24 AM
11/16/09 11:24 AM
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Like I said the in line air sander is to rough shape. Long boarding, like wet boarding the detainees is torture, but the only way to get a fare surface.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196476
11/16/09 11:45 AM
11/16/09 11:45 AM
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Undecide nice finish on the hull bottom. If they could only stay that way!


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: TheManShed] #196478
11/16/09 11:50 AM
11/16/09 11:50 AM
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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tell me about it.

I didn't even get to sail a whole regatta on those bottoms. Not even a single race!

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #196479
11/16/09 12:04 PM
11/16/09 12:04 PM

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andrewscott
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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Undecided
I used a regular longboard sander last winter and got great results.... (before brett's boat dragged mine across the parking lot)


how does 1 boat drag another boat accross a parking lot?

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ] #196482
11/16/09 12:11 PM
11/16/09 12:11 PM
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Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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All the boats were lined up in the lower parking lot at spring fever. Since there's nowhere to tie down boats (because its on pavement) we tie all the boats, side by side, to each others trap wires to help keep from flipping over if a storm comes along. We bookend the boats on either side by a trailer.

Well, on the Thursday night before the race, my boat was stuck between Trey's boat and Brett's boat - when a tornado came across the lake.

Apparently Brett's spinnaker came out of its bag and was partially flogging in the breeze and dragged his boat on its attached cushions. I had mine on throwable PFD's... so when his boat dragged, his bottom protection was still in place, but mine came off its pads and was dragged about... 3 feet.

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #196483
11/16/09 12:16 PM
11/16/09 12:16 PM
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TheManShed Offline OP
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Good way to sand a straight line. But that really sucks all of that hard work.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #196484
11/16/09 12:17 PM
11/16/09 12:17 PM

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andrewscott
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andrewscott
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gad-zukes!!! thats horrible.. at least it wasnt an act of drunken stupidity...

Re: TMS-20 update - new from The Man Shed [Re: ] #196485
11/16/09 12:20 PM
11/16/09 12:20 PM
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Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Andrew are you saying that sailors have made errors by acts of drunken stupidity? I've made some stone cold sober.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

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