democracy is very boring without social discourse

No, just a statement. If we keep approaching this the way we have, we won't even have a Hobie 16 class in 10 years. We need new people to sail Hobies more than we need new (complex) boats for them to sail.

Mike

uhh... you do realize that if you solve the F18 problem... you also solve the WAVE split... Hobie regattas simply host Wave Formula regattas.... (when they can find a critical mass of Wave Racers to attend)

This regatta issue is EASY!

Solve it quickly so you can figure out how a WAVE racing class attracts new sailors... Often claimed... rarely shown to be a self actualizing process.

Because Hobie and the Hobie class are in a conundrum. They have a racing model to maintain, admirably and rightfully so for the benefit of the new sailors, a very tightly controlled and extremely slowly evolving one design racing class.

Their competition (and to some extent, some parts of their own company) do not put as much effort into keeping things the same but they evolve their boat designs and boat offerings much faster. This appeals to the sailor looking for something "newer" or "faster".

The problem is that these two philosophies don't mix well when the available sailor base is limited. It fractures both. The fracture directly impacts the Hobie classes more directly in the short term (sailors jumping to other classes) and the other manufacturers long term (as the influx of new sailors).

That would be just about anybody my age. <30

The solution IMHO are formula classes. With box rules that do not change for years as to not obsolete old boats. And that's the reason why the F18 is such a success.

Do you really think the suggestion is that we stop looking for new sailors?
This proposal has nothing to do with new (complex) boats. F18's have been around for years now. If people want to sail them they will. The F18 class doesn't need the HCA to get itself off the ground.
This is about two classes going to the same place on any given weekend to ensure critical mass, and to give the Tiger sailors a real fleet.
It's that simple.

Yes Bob you are probably right inclusion is the way to go to insure #'s at some regatta's can be increased.Still not sure what the long term solution is for getting new sailors into the fold.Pretty sure going to a regatta with 10-12 Hobie 16's is not the recipe for generating a lot of attention.

We're looking to you for that one Mike

"Do you really think the suggestion is that we stop looking for new sailors?"

No, never said that. Perhaps you need to read through my posts again. All I am saying is that regardless of how many different fleets we bring into this, there will be no one left to sail Hobies if we don't make that the priority.

Mike

Isn't that already the priority?
Isn't that always the priority?

That is the most insightful, accurate and prophetic summation of the situation as it exists today that I have yet read.

Questions are easy, it is solutions that are, and will continue to be, difficult.

Solutions will require "out of the box" thinking, along with old tried and true methods.

The only thing for sure is that doing what we have been doing for the past several years and expecting a different result is sheer folly.

Divisive and combative flame wars on these forums has proven to make the situation worse.

We are all worshiping in the same church, just different pews.

In my opinion, Nigel Pitt was on the right track several years ago.

We NEED to find ways to come together and celebrate the things we have in common as multihull sailors instead of focusing on our differences.

We ALL need to find ways to be more inclusive and less exclusive.

Changing the rules for JUST the F-18 Class is putting a band aid on a bullet wound. While it may be a step in the right direction is not going to materially change the situation as it exists today.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think we should be going back to an open policy. We need to be selective about who we partner with. The fact that Hobie builds two F18 models should make this easy.

Remember Bob I am low on the Totem pole,it will not be myself making any decisions only recommendations.I still think it will require some revised Bylaws (which should be no big deal).

VERY WELL SAID.

So, you want to be selective about WHICH class should be included ?

That is just a modified way of being EXclusive, and dooms us, (enthusiasts of organized catamaran regatta's) to a slow painful death.

If we are to include just one class of boat, it seems rather short sighted to include the ONE Class where there are multiple manufacturers competing for the same customer dollars.

I think in some circles that is called "biting the hand that feeds you"

It is a step, and it increases numbers at events.

When numbers get lower events won't happen.

When you have nowhere, or less "wheres", to invite the new sailor to, then what?

+1 should be easy. Let's get it done.

I'm not hearing an alternative plan/s...???

The key is that we partner only with established classes. The problems we had in the past stemmed from the fact that the invitation was open to every one-off design on the market. This allowed new classes to use the HCA to build their new class from scratch. This made it too easy for a new catamaran class to get started and as a result we had too many classes and not enough sailors to fill most of them.

(You also start to have a bylaws problem when the established classes do not include Hobie built boats. In my opinion this is not a problem with F18's and Waves)

F16. It's just a matter of time until Hobie licenses an existing builder.

Easy fix. Check a box for the boat(s) you own, you can only vote for changes that are either pertinent to your class, or the association as a whole. If you're a member, and crew, tough titty, you don't to get to vote on a class unless you are at least a partial owner.



I don't think so. HC US thinks it'd be competition for the H16 which other than they both float they don't have much in common. He's probably right when it comes to the general public buying a catamaran though.