Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing #200700
01/18/10 12:08 PM
01/18/10 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3
C
Chick Parsons Offline OP
stranger
Chick Parsons  Offline OP
stranger
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3
I am looking at the various cat classes with the hope of racing with my daughter. I have sailed finns in international competition and raced cats in my youth. I think if I work hard I can get down to 225lbs. My daughter is a strong 6'0" and weighs about 165 lbs. I think as a team we will weigh in at 400lbs. I want to sail in the most popular class possible that will allow us to be competitive. I would also want a starter boat in the class that is less exotic and will take some punishment. Any suggestions on a class and a specific type of boat? I do want to race a class of boat that utilizes full sails. I live in Oregon which is a 5 hour drive to San Francisco. I can also race in LA and Seattle. Any help in choosing a class and a starter boat would be appreciated.

Last edited by Chick Parsons; 01/18/10 12:11 PM.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Chick Parsons] #200701
01/18/10 12:33 PM
01/18/10 12:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
That area Tiger. 15 racing in division 4 and 7 racing in division 3. Your going to be heavy at 400 but a good sailor can make it work. I'm in Humboldt county with my tiger and race all the division 3 events as well as a few outside the hobie scene.Feel free to contact me via im or e mail if you have any other questions.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: F-18 5150] #200704
01/18/10 12:40 PM
01/18/10 12:40 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



Tiger. Up there, best choice. No bias from me. Trust me. Tiger.

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: ] #200708
01/18/10 12:50 PM
01/18/10 12:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3
C
Chick Parsons Offline OP
stranger
Chick Parsons  Offline OP
stranger
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3
Thank you. Where do I find a good used boat? Is there a preference to what year Tiger you buy? Is there a year to stay away from?

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Chick Parsons] #200709
01/18/10 12:58 PM
01/18/10 12:58 PM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



This website has a classified section
there is http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/index.php
craigslist, ebay, peoples back yards

there is a hobie forum (hobie.com) that is a good place to look

my friend just sent out a notice to a Mystere's group on yahoo and got a sweet deal on a 6.0.. and was driven down from michagain to him.. maybe you could get lucky too with an email to the tiger groups online

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Chick Parsons] #200710
01/18/10 01:02 PM
01/18/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
The boats are all pretty equal. Main difference is the 2008 had a new rudder system. I'll check local and see if any are available. Also the classifieds here or Jeremy at Surf City Catamarans can usually find a boat. Also the Hobie forums sometimes has used boats.

New Tigers are around $17,500 (est)
Used with STX sails are about $9000
If you want the newest and latest
The Wild Cat is about $22,500 (est) no real class yet other than F-18.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: F-18 5150] #200711
01/18/10 01:06 PM
01/18/10 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
From the Catsailor classifieds.

2003 Tiger -- w/ trailer in good shape always covered, SNU, New Boom, 2 chutes, Heavy Duty trailer with large Catbox & separate sail tube $8000 714-791-9437 SO.CA. (CA)(Nov)
2006 Hobie Tiger -- excellent condition, SNU Spinnaker , Custom Sunbrella covers, race upgrades! - MBYC, San Diego, California, Don Ross (949) 547-2859. $10,995. rossmail at cox.net (CA)(Nov)


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: F-18 5150] #200717
01/18/10 03:14 PM
01/18/10 03:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
veteran

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
400lbs - c'mon guys that's 30kg overweight for F18! Are you taking the piss out of him?

i20


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: TEAMVMG] #200719
01/18/10 03:51 PM
01/18/10 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 62
K
KMarshack Offline
journeyman
KMarshack  Offline
journeyman
K

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 62
He is right, I20 is the boat for you...problem is there is no racing in Oregon for that boat (except 2 handicap races).
If you go with Tiger (one design Hobie racing), you will have to use Hobie one design sails (correct me if I am wrong). If you look at F18, you can order sail to more match your weight (although you are still too heavy to seriously compete). You could race MOST races in So Cal, ? in No Cal, and SOME races in NW as a F18. More boat options open up to you if you go F18.
If you daughter can skipper, you could double your pleasure-double your fun by going 2 "A" cats. Great racing in So Cal (Long Beach), No Cal (Santa Cruz), and Pacific Northwest. Avoid all the political BS as to what races you can attend with which F18 boat.

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: TEAMVMG] #200720
01/18/10 03:57 PM
01/18/10 03:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
There are a couple of things to consider - he mentions wanting to sail in a popular class. Broadening on Rich and Chris' suggestion of the Tiger, I think he would find newer F18 designs more weight-tolerant, both in buoyancy and power. Some platforms carry weight better than others and the racing is equal; 400 is a little much for any F18, though. The problem is that there aren't other options for a popular double-handed multihull with a competitive fleet that will carry 400-pounds in his area. There are some Nacra 20s in the San Diego area, but they don't travel.

I'd recommend F18 (not just the Tiger) to meet his stated needs.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: John Williams] #200724
01/18/10 04:10 PM
01/18/10 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
400 is a little much for any F18, though.



....


You've tried to convince me otherwise JDub smile

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: ThunderMuffin] #200725
01/18/10 04:26 PM
01/18/10 04:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
I tried to convince you that a good team can sail an F18 very well at 400-pounds. I even named names. But I never argued that it was optimal weight. The latest boat and sail designs penalize teams at minimum weight and make it possible for bigger teams to be competitive. Once a hull is out of the water and the lighter teams start depowering, the big boys start going to work in a big way. Look at the Tradewinds results for F18s. None of the top three are under minimum - I'd bet they're all around 345 or so. In the conditions you had, an accomplished 400-pound team would have really done well, I imagine. The problem for a bigger team comes when the breeze is around eight or nine instead of 15 knots - lighter teams start flying a hull sooner.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: John Williams] #200728
01/18/10 04:49 PM
01/18/10 04:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
The only reason I suggested the tiger was he said most popular racing. The pnw f-18 fleet is mostly tigers 20 to 5 I believe. Nor cal is all tigers 7-8 with 1 local nacra. No west coast F-20 / I-20 in the north. His question was the most competitive fleet with a more durable boat.
The tiger fits these requirements. If he wants the best most tricked out I'd say Wildcat or the C2. If there was a Nacra-20 class here I'd recomend that.
We can usually run mid pack at 385. If I don't screw up driving.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: John Williams] #200729
01/18/10 04:52 PM
01/18/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Chick Parsons:

You mentioned that you are looking for a starter boat to get into a competitive racing fleet. I don't care what boat you buy, if you are look at a competitive fleet it will probably take you a year to get up to speed in any new class. Pick a catamaran or Laser: a competitive fleet will be hard to break into the top.

If you are looking for a starter boat then you are probably looking at used. In your first year: Will you be competitive at 400lbs on a Formula 18? no. Will you be competitive on a Formula 18 at minimum weight of 330 (big sail plan)? no. My only guarantee is that you will have FUN! You will have some good legs and some bad legs during your racing. Get this, you will always be sailing faster than you ever have in the conditions you are in.

You will have a year or so to figure out the fleet and decide what boat will be your next step. If you find a boat of the right price you will not lose to much on the resale and it will give you valuable incite. Just get a boat and come out sailing. The group in your area does sail mostly Tigers but not only Tigers. They are a great group of guys and I would encourage you to contact them.

I look forward to meeting you at the regattas. I sail with Eileen and it will be nice to get more women on the race course. You are very lucky that you will be able to sail with your daughter.

Later,
Dan DeLave
NAF18 West Coast Rep

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Dan_Delave] #200731
01/18/10 06:44 PM
01/18/10 06:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
They should get two Waves and sail on separate boats. That would solve the whole problem.

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Mary] #200743
01/18/10 11:07 PM
01/18/10 11:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
Haha...you have to be joking. Not knocking the Wave per se, but it is not a race boat, although the race fleet is pretty decent. If you want a fun single hander, go A-Cat. Otherwise, get a spin boat. In that weight range, it's F-18 or N20. Given the popularity of the Tiger in your area and the lowish cost to entry, I would go that route. Are you going to be competitive on that boat in that weight range at World's? No, but you can definitely sail the boat and do fairly well locally if you learn how to sail. To prove my point, I got my butt kicked sailing a N20 at 400lbs vs. another two N20's with crew weights below 380 lbs, in a consistent 25 kts of breeze. This really showed me its the guys/gals sailing the boat, not weight per se. That being said, in under 10kts, the lighter guys really take off (usually me, my normal crew and I weigh in at ~365 lbs on the N20).

Last edited by samc99us; 01/18/10 11:07 PM.

Scorpion F18
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: samc99us] #200757
01/19/10 07:45 AM
01/19/10 07:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
Codblow Offline
enthusiast
Codblow  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
as a heavy weight cat sailor I can confirm , extra weight aint good , lightweights with umpteen million to one downhauls , modern cut sails and rigs can hang in upwind and then dissapear offwind , any minor advantage of weight upwind is more than offset by the MAJOR disadvantage offwind .
Heavyweights can win , but you have to sail a flawless race , hit every shift up and down ,catch every gust , boat handling spot on and rely on the lightweights making a mistake , at top level this aint going to happen , but possible at club and area racing

or curiously in drifters I've never found weight a handicap at all.

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Codblow] #200758
01/19/10 08:26 AM
01/19/10 08:26 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
How often do you tack on one windward leg, since you say: "hit every shift up and down" (seriously)

200lbs is 200lbs. Use it or loose it wink

Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #200759
01/19/10 08:41 AM
01/19/10 08:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
Codblow Offline
enthusiast
Codblow  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
irrelevant really either 1 or 3 in course racing upwind , praps same down wind point was that fattys have to get these spot on to gain any advantage over lightweights going faster and hoping the tack gybe in wrong places ,times or badly executed.

I weigh 118kgs , average cat sailor is 75kgs (according to schrs ) try carrying that difference down wind in any wind SCHRS roughly equates 10kgs of "boat weight" to a performance advantage/disadvantage of 1% approx , schrs formula is considered to be pretty good at assessing these differences .

118kgs = 260 llbs
75 kgs = 165 llbs
10 kgs = 22 llbs

Last edited by Codblow; 01/19/10 08:52 AM.
Re: Boat recommendation for new 400lb team to Cat Racing [Re: Chick Parsons] #200766
01/19/10 10:50 AM
01/19/10 10:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Don_Atchley Offline
enthusiast
Don_Atchley  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Seattle,Wa
Chick,
I've sent you a PM.

Contact me for information on Tiger/F18's in the Pacific Northwest.
I am weighing in myself at 220# and race the Tiger very competitively when I practice.

Tigers are the predominate F18 and have a strong OD program in the Pacific Northwest. We have over 20 Tigers racing in this region, and several Nacras out of Vancouver, BC.

You've got plenty of Dealer support for the Tiger in this area, and more racing than your schedule will probably allow.

Give us a call.


Hobie Tiger 2003
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 415 guests, and 82 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1