If you had the option to buy any F18 on the market which would you buy and why?

The full carbon one that weighs 100 kilos.

wait...

The one I could afford, so I could go sailing..

C2

If money is an issue a good used Tiger can be about $8000

If buying new then money cannot be an issue, C2, WildCat, Infusion (Hulls made overseas). You know the Infusion so you will not have to relearn how to tune it. The other two boats still need more flushing to figure out. All of them are fast. All are just about the same price, maybe within $1000.

You have a spot in the yard don't you? Now just throw a dart blindfolded if you cannot choose.

Later,
Dan

DON'T throw a DART! Jezus. A Dart hitting an F18 would make an awful mess.

If you can throw a dart f18 at a board, your a better man than me!

An F18 hitting a Dart also makes an awful mess.
(dont ask me how I know).

Ha, suppose I can play here too

what? If I lived at your house C2...since I don't Wildcat (could race the possible Hobie event)

why? C2 and Wildcat being second generations of the two builders they have to be as good, or slightly better, right? (sure Infusion is same category but the other two are newer)
If the grey matter between my ears thinks I've bought the best possible product, I can forget about that mess and just race

Get 'em Ian

which ever manufacturer, you think, will give you the best support both on the spares/warranty side and on the sailing team/coaching/at the races support side.

That post right there is the best one yet!

+1. I bought my Infusion based upon accessibility to the dealer and parts in my area, at the time of my purchase. (This situation has since become more competitive with an AHPC dealer entering the area now.)

All F-18's are quite competitive between brands. Tigers tend to be a little heavier and the design getting a little dated, but no great shakes on performance differences overall. All the others are mostly the same. Hardware on the AHPC boat is a little more refined, but they all have their quirky differences.

A good skipper and crew make the difference on the F18, not the boat. Look at last year's Tybee-Heemskirk won sailing on a Tiger-(annihilating the rest of the competion)...sooo it ain't the boat; it's the nut on the tiller that usually makes the difference.

If I could have waited a year to buy the C2 instead of the Infusion I would have... strictly for the build quality and manufacturer support.
I guess that's the name of the game though.

So sell the Infusion!
If you want to be in it a top level, you should be changing the boat every year anyhow.

After watching the AC33 coverage I'd go with the Wildcat or C2 . Can I get them with a wing?

The Infusion was designed by the same guys that designed BMWO....

Right now i'd still get a infusion over a WildCat or C2, the infusion is the best developed and least to have problems with.

The C2 looks very nice but id wait at least 6 months more like a year actually before buying so that any teethin troubles will of been iorned out.

The WildCat, i don't like the design of them, they seem to lack volume in the bow, at the windy races at the worlds at lot of teams didnt look comfortable on them.

On the West Coast we are all building wings for the Infusions under Pete Melvin's tutelege. Since it works so well at the AC. With plans in hand and material on the bench, expect to see at least 3 boats at the NAs in Racine with them.

Some may look at the rules and surmiss that this is not a class legal sail...Well to that we say "Rules? We don't need no stinking rules!"

Did I hear someone say "The wing is king?" Thanks for all the fishes.

Later,
Dan

Our evil class president will find some loophole to use one himself.
My boat only has 1 season on it (4-5 months) so I think I should be able to get 1 or 2 more on it before selling it to get another boat. The boat will remain competitive at the top U.S. level for that time with a new spinnaker every season and a new jib every season or two. I say U.S. as i'm sure the guys in Europe are getting new sails every other regatta?

Dude, that hurts my feelings I really like you guys... well Brenden anyway. Oh by the way, I cruched the numbers again on your measurement cert and none of your sails measure in... it's weird how that happened.

Would be nice if we got new sails every other regata, some of the pros migh but due to alot of thier sails having to be branded uup thats often quite restricted.

Our main lasts us atleast a season, 2 kites a year if the first one is lookin tired after lots of use a 1 maybee if the first one is tirin 2 jibs

Can you put this in hours? How many hours do you sail a main / jib / spin until you feel they wear out?

I was going through two spinnakers and one jib a year, then a main every couple of years. That was when the Hobie Tiger was making the spinnaker out of a very light and seemingly stretchy material. At that time I was sailing most weekends and a couple of evenings during the week. I now have two spinnakers That have lasted more than a season. One is only used for racing. The other I use for pleasure sailing. I think the newer materials last longer but will probably try to get a new chute for the NAs.

Later,
Dan

I had a conversation with my sailmaker, sailing F18 himself, about this subject. Depending on how you treat the sails (pulling the cunningham, let it flutter in the wind, exposure to UV, storage) he assumes a life expectancy 100 to 150 hours, after that you'll sail not in the top group in regattas anymore. What I don't do anyway ...

Just made this decision, C2! We sailed a Cap for a few years, loved it, put us in the fight for top NA spots (which we then gave back due to our own "grey matter"). The boat was great, had no issues, had a great opportunity to sell it and get a C2 (which looks to have improved on the only tough time to sail a Cap, downwind in big chop and breeze), so we did.

Fortunately new boats come with new sails! I generally believe that in what I have seen in NA to be fighting for the top 10% you need the newest kite you can afford, a jib that is new that season, and a main that looks like it is new, but is maybe two years old.

A good analogy I have comes from racing road bikes.... You can spend an extra $5k to shave 2 grams from the weight of your bike... or you can loos 5 pounds by eating 2 less grams of fat.... what would you rather focus on? Brand new sails are always faster, but until they are the reason you are not winning the race, focus on sailing better ;-) (and never rag yours sails, even to try your kite, bad bad bad)

(that said, if anyone wants a set of Cap main and jib used for only one week of sailling, message me)

Pat.. BRAND new sails are not always faster.. they need to be broken in a bit
I'll take those cap sails off your hands.. not sure what i'll do with them but for free what the hell

This is much less the case with mains and jibs... they take one race where you max out the Cunningham then there good. Spinnakers on the other hand, just get better over the first two regattas as they stretch in. In fact, if we have a new spinnaker at the start of a major regatta we'll get it full wet and then do a practice down wind just to stretch it in a little quicker.

Ahhhhh so that is what you were up to at the taipan nats! I lost count of how many times you guys went "full wet"

ha ha.... only twice.... but it was the same wave on consecutive laps

There is one small hole in the theory... some kites don't like getting full wet for the first time...

My infusion spinny pole didn't like it either, when the spinny got full of water on the boats 1st sail

yes yes, sail them a bit first, I like giving them a few days of training (if not a week), but that has more to do with making sure the cut is the same as the old (or if not, changing my mast to match the new cut).

Kites, yeah, first two days gets them to the right shape, after that you have about 10 minutes of a perfect kite, then they start degrading.... ;-) Or maybe that is just because of the force I put on it while pulling it down.....

As for my cap sails, never said they were free ;-)

I started this thread so I should probably finish it. I had the hard decision on my hands of choosing what F18 I would sail in 2010. I had a great time, great year, and fantastic experience sailing the Nacra Infusion in 2009. I love the design, I love the way it feels. It's fast in light air, its fast in heavy air, and its fast in-between. For 2010 I decided to go with the AHPC C2. For those that know me, they know I debated back and forth many times between the three majors. I'm not gonna beat around the bush here....I'm not gonna try and sugar coat this like so many seem to do on this site. I decided to go with the C2 because in the end it seemed like I got the most bang for my buck. I got the most amount of "Extras", with a very high quality build, for the least amount of money. This was my perception. Not everyone is going to come to the same conclusion. That's what this whole post was supposed to be about. I was interested in what others perceptions were of the different manufactures products. It seemed like *most* folks were almost afraid to write about what their perceptions were...So there we have it.

Let's all have a great year on whatever F18 we chose to sail. Every single F18 on the market has its positives and negatives and every boat is on the same level playing field. That's why I love this class!!! Good luck!

Wise words and I fully agree!
Kai

AHPC support is great too. I bought a demo Capricorn this January and I have been nothing but delighted with the boat, the build quality, the rigging and the customer support.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/AHPC-Australian-High-Performance-Catamarans/10150116138925627?ref=ts

AHPC are now on facebook... don't ask me how i know...

Anyone care to elaborate on this comment? Looking to buy a wildcat...

Here's video of all of the top 3 in High Winds and Chop. These are from the recent West Coast Championships in San Francisco Bay

West Coast Championships 2010 .

Watch the videos and decide for yourself.