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The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) #204731
03/03/10 07:14 AM
03/03/10 07:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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Dear all,

It is 2010 now and 4 years since I transferred all responsibilities to the newly formed Governing Council. The council at that time was carefully formed to include all makes and represent the diverse group of sailors the best. This marked the end of my own 5 year tenure as a very powerful unitary chairmanship. Such a powerful position was needed for the foundation of the class but a new more democratic leadership was needed for the continued growth of the class. As such the main assignment given to the new governing council (GC) was to formalize the class and create a well balanced and democratically selected leadership. It was assumed that this installed GC would make way for a democratically selected GC when the procedures were finalised.

Indeed the GC worked hard over the last 4 years and the class grew during this time but in my view something important went wrong anyway. This post will detail what and propose a way out of this situation.

Currently, the class chairmanship and chief measurer are father and son and also control all F16 related business (Blade, Viper, Falcon and now also Raptor F16's) to the EU market with the expection of the UK where (only) the Stealth F16 is still independent. The F16 class chairman is now closely involved with the development of a new brand of F16's (Raptor F16). The chief measurer is still closely involved with the A-cat class (founding member and developer) and is indeed a well known A-cat agent/importer. It is also hard to imagine how the chief measurer is not involved with the Raptor design. The family and business relationships between these two persons is just too tight.

I feel this gives foundation to be seriously concerned about a conflict of interests. A situation unsuited for further growth of the F16 class; especially in the very important EU market. Indeed, there are claims that the confidential details of one design crossed over to the design of another builder. At this time it is immaterial whether this is true or not (although I have absolutely no reason to doubt the source), because the current situation will only reinforce such claims. I note that this is only one example of something that went wrong, but I also note that detailing all of them is not in anybodies interest. Suffice to say that the F16 network that was build up during my tenure is upset and the cooperation, that is so vital to this class, has been damaged.

This outcome was not intended when the GC was formed by myself a few years ago. This is not a clear implementation of a well-balanced (impartial) and democratically elected leadership of the F16 class. It also excludes the benefits of a free-market that is so important to a formula based class. A EU buyer can only buy a F16 product from one single source even when no less then 4 different brands are available to him.

I feel this situation must be remedied in order to garantee further growth of the F16 class. I understand that this may be difficult to accept but note that that may in itself not be an argument against doing so. What is best for the F16 class must at all times be paramount and indeed I too fell victum to that criterium a few years back. I ask nothing more of the current GC then I demanded from myself back then.

Basically I propose that the current GC complete their tenure in 2011 and make way for new blood; this time elected fully democratically and transparantly. In my view this implies that some candidates for these positions are excluded if they do not cast off some of their other projects. In the end, the F16 class chairman can not also be the owner of a particular F16 brand and dealorship. His impatiallity will then always be in doubt which is not in the best interest of the F16 class as a whole.

Additionally, I feel that the F16 class must actively work to split up the current 4-in-1 dealorship. That is by definition a monopoly and therefor against the spirit of the F16 rules and class.

I also believe that a chief measurer can not be involved with any particular commerical F16 design. Even the appearence of such a link is to be carefully avoided. Furthermore, the F16 chief measurer must be completely focussed on the F16 class alone and not have one foot in another (rival) class. Addionally, the chief measurer must maintain good relations with all persons inside the F16 network. This is most definitely not the case at this time. Over the years, a fall-out has happened with various F16 boat designers, founders and builders. I will not detail the specific situations but suffice by thanking him for his effort and proposing to transfer this position to another person who is generally respected as soon as possible.

In writing this proposal a new development was announced. 2Bsailing now appears to be the importer for the AHPC Viper F16 product and thus one brand of F16 boats has been taken away from the 4-in-1 dealorship that we have here in EU. I feel this is a very good development and would like to see further steps in this direction.

In conclusion I would like to say the following. The proposals above do not impact my respect I have for the craftmanship of either Catamaranparts or PESA. I have my doubts about the promotional or leadership skills of either business owner, but not at all about their handywork. I feel both are valuable contributers to the F16 class, but just not in their current roles. I think it wise to look for ways to maximize their individual strongpoints while respectfully adress their weaknesses by recruiting the skills of other persons. Along this line of thinking I believe that the 2Bsailing news is an excellent development. Both mr. Bundock and ms. Brouwer already display excellent promotional and people skills combined with a great potential to showcase the boats. If the technical back-end support is handled by say catamaranparts or PESA then I think we'll see a dream come true.


With kind regards,

Wouter Hijink

Last edited by Wouter; 03/03/10 07:27 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: Wouter] #204757
03/03/10 09:42 AM
03/03/10 09:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
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pgp Offline
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Imo, this is a legitimate point of view worthy of discussion. Civility would be a big help in promoting said discussion.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: pgp] #204764
03/03/10 10:39 AM
03/03/10 10:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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pepin  Offline
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France
Where's my popcorn? I want to see the fireworks smile

More seriously I agree that Wouter is raising some valid points worth discussing. I'd like to see a response from the GC. However:

1> I'm not sure this is the right forum to do so
2> You will have to convince me that someone else wants to fill those positions...

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: pepin] #204765
03/03/10 10:55 AM
03/03/10 10:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 439
Memphis, TN
M
mikeborden Offline
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Anyone got any popcorn?


Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: mikeborden] #204767
03/03/10 11:18 AM
03/03/10 11:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Wouter,

Make a proposal, in writing, to the GC for discussion at the next WGM, this is how democratic organisations work, members propose things, members discuss them and members vote on them.



Last edited by scooby_simon; 03/03/10 11:21 AM.

F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: scooby_simon] #204775
03/03/10 12:09 PM
03/03/10 12:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
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pgp Offline
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No popcorn. It's a new year. You are viewing the new, kinder, gentler F16 forum.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: pepin] #204787
03/03/10 01:09 PM
03/03/10 01:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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pepin  Offline
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France
Originally Posted by pepin
I'd like to see a response from the GC.
Well, I've read Hans response to the F16 *members* (aka the ones who have actually paid, and voted). I'm happy with it.

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: pepin] #204789
03/03/10 01:11 PM
03/03/10 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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pgp  Offline
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+1


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: pgp] #204790
03/03/10 01:16 PM
03/03/10 01:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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It is with an extremely heavy heart that I find myself typing this. I had promised myself that I would not stoop to answer the nonsense and vitriol being spouted. BUT:

I find the constant use of the word 'we' - not necessarily in this thread but in others - to be quite objectionable.
Wouter was given every opportunity to become a member of the F16 Class - yet not only did he refuse to do so, he also refused to assist the class with the transfer of the F16 domain name (even though he was offered all his costs incurred during the previous 3 years in return for so doing). This resulted in additional costs to the class in having to purchase a new domain (.net)

Therefore I find his resurgent zeal and use of "we" to be utterly distasteful. His constant tub-thumping over what a clever person he is to have founded the F16 Class is also objectionable - sure he HELPED to formulate a box-rule that several builders signed up to and it proved to be a very workable, attractive formula with great potential.
However, the class that we see growing today has come about as a result of a LOT of very hard backroom work by the Governing Council, and the faith, investment and goodwill of a number of boat builders. I won't decry the effort that Wouter at al put in at the start but for 5 years the F16 format floundered around with slow growth until the Governing Council was formed.
The F16 Class has a formal, voted for Constitution, it has Associations and it has a membership structure. As far as I'm concerned (and I suspect many people will agree with me), if you are not a member of something it is patently wrong to attempt to portray yourself as being part of it. Especially so when you've actually said you don't want to be part of it!

I write this as an F16 sailor NOT as Secretary - while it is difficult to divorce my feelings in either role, this is not an official response from the GC but my personal outpourings over what I see to be grave misrepresentation and unfair treatment of individuals who have given time, effort and their own money to further the growth of the F16 Class.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: pgp] #204793
03/03/10 01:56 PM
03/03/10 01:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp
+1


+2


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: scooby_simon] #204795
03/03/10 02:18 PM
03/03/10 02:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
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W

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Wouter, pays your monies, become a F16 member and you can make as many serious proposals as you like, put that same proposal on Cat Sailor in the wording you have and you look like someone who has a personal vendetta rather than a serious proposal.

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: Wouter] #204800
03/03/10 03:03 PM
03/03/10 03:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 465
Oxford, UK
pdwarren Offline
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Just to echo what everyone else has said: If you have a serious proposal, or even just want to step up and volunteer to help develop the class, put it before the current members and let us vote. That's how democracy works.

Otherwise, please just let us get on with sailing F16. Will we see you at Gravedona?

Paul

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: scooby_simon] #204806
03/03/10 03:55 PM
03/03/10 03:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
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Marcus F16  Offline
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South Australia
+3


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: Jalani] #204867
03/04/10 02:55 PM
03/04/10 02:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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I wish to place in the public record that the statements by John Alani are strongly and fundamentally contested by me.

I've detailed my response in the other thread where these comments were first posted by John.

I also note that John does not adress any specific point raised by me in this thread and chooses for the tactic to disqualify me and my statements by character assasination.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: Wouter] #204869
03/04/10 03:21 PM
03/04/10 03:21 PM
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Wouter Offline OP
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Guys,

It is your class, so you get to choose what happens.

I did my tour of duty when I co-founded the class and guided it during those all important first 5 years. Like a parent I will let you make your own mistakes while dispensing warnings. Of course I also can't champion this proposal myself because of the (created) controversy around my persona.

So I'm just notifying you of some of the things that you should be aware off. It is up to you whether you run with it or not. The final results will be yours to deal with also.

I also feel that the fact that each element in my posting can be independedly verified is a strong enough argument against any irrational smears such as "I'm being on a personal vendetta". Such tactics are only aimed at diverting attention away from the serious points that were raised.

Why would anybody want to do that, I wonder ?

Personally, I can't care less about HS and PS if the F16 class is safe and running under full steam. For the EU this is simply not the case. I see the monopoly as a serious thread despite assurances to the contrary.

I've seen both persons up close and witnessed their skills in various organisations and situations; my judgement remains that they are not best "utilized" in their current roles.

The F16 class was a dream I shared with Kirt and Phill back in 2001; its success is close to my heart. When pressed, I will always choose the success of the class over any person (including myself).

I guess it is all up to you now; don't let this beautiful class fail !

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/04/10 03:24 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: Wouter] #204872
03/04/10 03:31 PM
03/04/10 03:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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scooby_simon Offline
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Originally Posted by Wouter


The F16 class was a dream I shared with Kirt and Phill back in 2001; its success is close to my heart. When pressed, I will always choose the success of the class over any person (including myself).

I guess it is all up to you now; don't let this beautiful class fail !

Wouter


Wouter,

If you truely believe this, will you stop this posting of drivel that damages the class we all love?

You state "I will always choose the success of the class over any person (including myself)."
then stop posting and leave the class to flourish.

If this is really the case; please make you next, and last post simply



Yes.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: scooby_simon] #204895
03/04/10 06:12 PM
03/04/10 06:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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F 16 is Wouter, Phill and Kirt...if the class is not giving the three of them lifetime free memberships to their own brain child, the GC should be shot, hung and drowned....not necessarly in that order. To not grant them that respect is wrong on so many levels I wouldn't know where to begin.

Remember if it wasn't for the countless hours of time Wouter, Philll and Kirt gave you for free you wouldn't even have a class. Chew on that for a while.

I don't know what the going rate is for an engineer in Europe, but her in the US it would be easy to spend $1,000 for a day of their time, let alone the amount of hours these gentelmen invested. Sounds like the GC was offered the deal of the century and were to short sited to see what they were offered.

Funny how Wouter is suppose to pay 100 euros for a measurment of his boat and no one has a problem with that...but as one of the driving forces behind forming a the F16 Catamaran class and spending years of free time... many are offended that he tried to recoup just a fraction of the time/money he layed out and asked for a waver on the membership dues....unbelievable

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: Seeker] #204896
03/04/10 06:22 PM
03/04/10 06:22 PM
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pgp Offline
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+1 No good deed goes unpunished.

Last edited by pgp; 03/04/10 06:23 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: pgp] #204910
03/05/10 02:29 AM
03/05/10 02:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Seeker,
if it were as simple as you've set out there wouldn't be an issue and the Governing Council would not disagree with what you have said.
There is respect for the work of the founding group - it was for precisely this reason that the option to award lifetime memberships was written into the Constitution.

However, let's just say that Wouter's recollection of events differs from the collective recollections of those involved in discussions with him. At no time have we tried to marginalise him - even including him in the early Skype meeting of the Governing Council. Kirt and Phill both paid their fees without being asked, they didn't want to be given special treatment. They have both earned the respect that is fully due to them and have behaved in the way that would be expected of someone who has done great work for the good of the class. Wouter appears to want to undo any good that he has done (and as I have already said I wouldn't decry that work). For many years now he seems determined to divide and destroy the class - hardly the work of someone with the good of the class in mind.
Perhaps his most unforgivable trait is to claim to be the voice of F16 while denigrating other classes - a trait that has made the growth and acceptance of F16 that much harder and made life much more difficult for the Governing Council than it otherwise needed to be.
I have no objection to Wouter and the others being recognised via Life Membership - it will be the members who vote them in. I (and others) object to Wouter's automatic expectation of recognition while at the same time attacking those very people he expects to laud him.
The F16 Class is not Wouter, Kirt and Phill - it belongs to those people who have invested their own money and either built designs, moulds, businesses or bought those boats. It is those people who have joined Associations and work actively to race fairly and demonstrate the F16 concept by example. It is those people who invest their time, effort and their own money to talk to other classes, rating officials, National Authorities, race organisers, clubs etc. to further F16 worldwide.
At the end of the day it's not about whether Wouter will or will not stump up a paltry 15 to be a member or even if we give him membership for life. It's about attitude. It's about the good name and reputation of the F16 Class.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: The case for a new Governing Council (as promised) [Re: Jalani] #204919
03/05/10 08:06 AM
03/05/10 08:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
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pgp Offline
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pgp  Offline
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Anger is voluntary. Stop being angry at Wouter and stop fighting with him. He isn't the problem.

I no longer read, respond to, or file diatribes. Except on political threads! laugh

If you want to sponsor constructive dialogue about the F16 class, be positive. But above all be brief.



Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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