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More rules questions... #209423
04/24/10 01:55 AM
04/24/10 01:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
SE Qld, Aus.
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NickoPen Offline OP
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NickoPen  Offline OP
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Hi everyone.

I'm still debating whether to build one of these as I save up the pennies, but have some questions about the rules.

1) Why the detail in the rig restrictions? I like the safety points and luff length restriction, but why then further detail half-mast girth measurements etc when the standard IYRU (now ISAF) sail area measurements take this into account for you and give certainty to how to measure things like tapered masts? I don't want to end up in the situation with a tapered wing mast that measures under IYRU (as the local sailmakers are happy to conform to), but might not measure under these rules due to ambiguity.

2) Did I miss something, or can I put the rudder on a nice gantry, faired into the hull to efectively extend LWL?

3) is the 50kg all up weight still effective - somewhere I read that it might be under review?

As I see it (from the persepective of an old moth and 12ft skiff sailor) there is a lot of room for flexibility in the rules (they are almost as open as A-class!) and I've been doing some sums and can't seem to get a boat I'd really like for under $5k AUD (still using a glass sandwich hull and conservative rig materials!). A fair bit of the cost is in the rig and fitout (about 3.8k). Then on top of this I have to buy a trailer, covers etc... Sure, I can take shortcuts, but I might as well push the rules and make the fastest boat I can.

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Re: More rules questions... [Re: NickoPen] #209424
04/24/10 02:03 AM
04/24/10 02:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
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NickoPen Offline OP
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Oh, also - the statement about not being able to adjust spreader rake whilst racing - Is there any restriction about changing it whilst on the water? Can I have a system that allows me to capsize and adjust, and then just rely on someone protesting me if they see me doing it whilst racing?

I'm thinking of adjustable spreaders that don't require tools here.

Re: More rules questions... [Re: NickoPen] #209462
04/24/10 10:51 PM
04/24/10 10:51 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,343
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Online content
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JeffS  Online Content
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You hit the nail on the head about the rules being the same as A class, I copied the A class rules and modified them to fit F12 in an effort to get my boats built before the kids out grew them, unfortunately my girls got crews and got big before we could tie the rules down but Iím still building one for my young lad. Personally I think if you canít do what you want within the existing rules you canít do it. Youíre welcome to open up the rules for debate if you want with the people that are building them now but the spirit of the rules is really to encourage kids to take up sailing and keep sailing by keeping the boats low in price, accessible to anyone, keeping older ones competitive with new ones and not to grandfather any that are built to the existing rules.
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Arrow 1576
Re: More rules questions... [Re: JeffS] #209570
04/26/10 05:05 PM
04/26/10 05:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,305
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Originally Posted by JeffS

Personally I think if you canít do what you want within the existing rules you canít do it...

...the spirit of the rules is really to encourage kids to take up sailing and keep sailing by keeping the boats low in price, accessible to anyone...


The spirit of the rule is even more important than the class itself. One may not like the rules but still like the spirit, in which case he will build or buy another cat for his kids. This would not help the F12 class, but would still help catsailing and sailing.


Luiz
Re: More rules questions... [Re: Luiz] #209594
04/27/10 06:26 AM
04/27/10 06:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
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NickoPen Offline OP
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I didn't want to open a can of worms or even change the rules - just wanted to clarify what I could or could not do in a couple of areas that I thought the rules were vague.

I'll apologise for not reading close enough - the gantry issue is already covered (don't know how I missed that one, I'm sure I've read these ten times at least!).

The class is in its infancy, so I don't want to be one of those PITA's who take the literal meaning of every sentence in the rules and then make some weird boat that clearly is out of the intention or spirit of the rules and argue about it. BUT I still think the measurement of sail area for tapered masts needs to be clarified (or just made clear to me!)

I'll assume that the min weight was finalised at 50kg and that the spreader rule is as I described above.

Just to raise another possibly contentious point: any comment on a single equipment/configuration per regatta rule? Its always a nice-to-have to keep costs down.

FYI, I'm building this primarily to introduce my daughter to sailing, but I thought it would be a nice way to introduce myself to catamaran sailing until she gets big enough to start sailing!

Re: More rules questions... [Re: NickoPen] #209599
04/27/10 06:59 AM
04/27/10 06:59 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,343
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Online content
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Your right about the weight at 50kg, your tapered mast is easy as per the rules just divide it in half, regarding regattas theres a bit to do before we see one in Aus but if there was a regatta I think it should be open to anything that meets F12 measurement such as Arafura Cadets etc to build numbers, I don't think single equipment would help the cause.
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Arrow 1576
Re: More rules questions... [Re: JeffS] #209601
04/27/10 07:03 AM
04/27/10 07:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
SE Qld, Aus.
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NickoPen Offline OP
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NickoPen  Offline OP
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Sounds good! Just got to build this shed so I can start on the F12. Hopefully I'll have something by Christmas...

I'll keep my eye on here so as to not miss anything.

Re: More rules questions... [Re: NickoPen] #209618
04/27/10 11:50 AM
04/27/10 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,305
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Have you choosen a design? There are a few available from great designers for a nominal USD 50 contribution to the class.


Luiz
Re: More rules questions... [Re: NickoPen] #209681
04/28/10 12:07 AM
04/28/10 12:07 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,343
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Online content
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JeffS  Online Content
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Thats a coincidence I'm building my new 7.5m x 16m shed at the moment and will get back onto finishing my F12 when its up. What age is your junior sailer?
regards


Jeff Southall
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Taipan 5.7 134
Arrow 1576
Re: More rules questions... [Re: JeffS] #209691
04/28/10 05:57 AM
04/28/10 05:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 20
SE Qld, Aus.
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NickoPen Offline OP
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NickoPen  Offline OP
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SE Qld, Aus.
My daughter's 2 at the moment. She should be swim-capable by 4 or so and I'm hoping to let her go solo by around 7 or 8 (judging by the neighbours kids riding bikes etc)... but one thing I've learnt in the last two years is that One should never plan more than 5 minutes in advance.

I am only just 70 kg's so the plan is to build, sail, learn about cats, probably modify the design and re-build in the next few years before she is old enough to decide for herself if she wants to join the fun. Her mum is set on getting her into competitive motorcyling, but that is just a bottomless money pit (yes, even more so than sailing).

On the topic of designs, I am looking at the Tabby at the moment, but will talk to Ncik about modifying the design a bit. I'm happy to go through a few hull iterations over the space of a few years: hulls are the cheap part of small cats/dinghies these days, so if things go well, I hope to be sailing something reasonably refined by the time my daughter's old enough to join in.

I'm happy to donate $50 for a sail number... where is the money going? Is there any activity outside this forum (an official website even)?

On a different note (this post is getting long... sorry) I realised there might be some confusion over what I meant by a "single equipment" rule. I don't mean single manufacturer or design, I was referring to some means to stop people having multiple rigs/foils/whatever that they swap out depending on the conditions on the day. What you rig up on the first day of a regatta should be what you use all regatta, barring accidental failure... Just keeps costs down, although I admit I can't see anyone spending that sort of money on a boat like this (yet).



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