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Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: pgp] #211671
05/22/10 06:27 AM
05/22/10 06:27 AM
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Dodsy Offline
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I think if buying a modern F16-based machine, you have more credibility if you enter a regatta assuming that handicap. The only reason skippers should nominate a more favourable handicap is if they are one of only a few competitors with varied handicaps.

Basically, if I were to buy a Viper, I am seeking to compete as an F16. Simple really.

While on the subject, is there any evidence to back the conspiracy theory that AHPC is not supporting an F16 culture or is in any way attempting to sabotage your formula?

I read lots of sensational accusations (read: juvenile whinging and name-calling) but no actual substance.

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Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Dodsy] #211673
05/22/10 06:39 AM
05/22/10 06:39 AM
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Dodsy Offline
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Re dumping of F18 vs F16 handicap, I have not raced either enough to give a qualified answer so I won't.

Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Dodsy] #211674
05/22/10 06:46 AM
05/22/10 06:46 AM
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pgp Offline
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I've no knowledge of AHPC's intentions, but from what I've seen they're just trying to sell boats and promote catamaran sailing; and doing a very good job at both.

Fwiw, I've seen F18s and F16s on the same course often. The finishes seem to be related more to skill than handicap.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: pgp] #211675
05/22/10 06:54 AM
05/22/10 06:54 AM
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Dodsy Offline
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I defer to your greater experience.

Respectfully, I don't believe F16 will inherit sailors from the F18 ranks on the grounds that most of the F18 combinations probably need the bigger platform and have a steady, established team.

I can't agree more with you regarding AHPC's intentions. I submit that a few contributors need to ease back on their invective - such a tactic will probably ease their blood pressure... It will certainly lend greater credibilty to the F16 community (vis a vis Mr Marlow's "dogs" comment).

Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Dodsy] #211685
05/22/10 08:44 AM
05/22/10 08:44 AM
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waynemarlow Offline
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Originally Posted by Dodsy
(vis a vis Mr Marlow's "dogs" comment).


In all respect Dodsy if you had been around for a while on this forum, you would perhaps understand my statement, the biggest "stirrers" and "waffle artists" sadly seem to be Aussie based.

Now if you are not a "stirrer" and "waffle artist" then you can exclude yourself and any similar minded Aussie sailor, from being a "dog" and join into the banter of this forum.

Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: waynemarlow] #211690
05/22/10 01:27 PM
05/22/10 01:27 PM
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Posts: 695
Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
Seeker Offline
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Can't speak for anyone else, but as I get older (I am a very fit 56) my tolerence for things like lugging around a 400lb boat has passed, especially when a much lighter weight alternative exists with the added benefit of a lower cost.

As all of us baby boomers get older, weght of the platform will become more of an issue. The weight minimum that Macca and his associates fight to increase is one of the major draws of the F16, one that can pull sailors and would be sailors from other active and dead one design and formula classes who refuse to abandon outdated excessive minimum weights.

Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: waynemarlow] #211709
05/22/10 07:09 PM
05/22/10 07:09 PM
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Dodsy Offline
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I rest my case.

Wayne, just because I haven't posted before doesn't mean I haven't been around for a while. It was your all-encompassing descriptions of Australians as dogs with no qualification which finally goaded me into speaking.

I won't bother with further contribution (which will probably make you happy) until a more positive strain enters the debate... Response only dignifies the insults.

Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Seeker] #211725
05/23/10 05:31 AM
05/23/10 05:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Originally Posted by Seeker
Can't speak for anyone else, but as I get older (I am a very fit 56) my tolerence for things like lugging around a 400lb boat has passed, especially when a much lighter weight alternative exists with the added benefit of a lower cost.

As all of us baby boomers get older, weght of the platform will become more of an issue. The weight minimum that Macca and his associates fight to increase is one of the major draws of the F16, one that can pull sailors and would be sailors from other active and dead one design and formula classes who refuse to abandon outdated excessive minimum weights.


Agreed.

When I get too old to lug the F16 around; I'll buy an A.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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lead boots! [Re: scooby_simon] #211774
05/24/10 09:48 AM
05/24/10 09:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
Buccaneer Offline
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Thailand
107 kg is heavy? You must be kidding. cool Anyway for you younger guys who are looking to get fit pushing your boats up and down the beach the Viper is several kg. heavier and if that's still not enough try strapping on some lead.. grin


"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Dodsy] #211786
05/24/10 12:51 PM
05/24/10 12:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
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Quote

While on the subject, is there any evidence to back the conspiracy theory that AHPC is not supporting an F16 culture or is in any way attempting to sabotage your formula?



No, contacts are good and AHPC has always been fully supportive of the F16 class and F16 activities.

Such rumours have always been spread by a few well known individuals looking to find a fault line that may split the class when hammered hard.

Personally, I don't care one bit at what rating the Viper sails as long as it sails on elapsed time basis in official F16 events (and in possession of a compliant measurement certicate).

Additionally, the F16 class is fully supportive of AHPC and understands that they market the boat for multiple uses (among which both F16 and F104 for the French sailors)

Wouter




Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Wouter] #211788
05/24/10 01:02 PM
05/24/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Additionally,

There is actually a good market for F16's and builders and agents involved don't really see the F18 and F16 classes as being competitors; rather they express the view that they see them as complementary.

I for one envision crews moving in and out of both classes and in eachother and I think that is actualle very healthy.

I too talk to various people and indeed sailors (also F18 crews) who test sail a F16 are almost invariably very positive afterwards.

There is ample market potential for both classes and in fact both can feed of eachother and be more successful.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Wouter] #211792
05/24/10 02:25 PM
05/24/10 02:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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+1


Kris Hathaway
Re: 2Bsailing and Viper F16 are keeping the peddle down ! [Re: Wouter] #211793
05/24/10 02:40 PM
05/24/10 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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"There is ample market potential for both classes and in fact both can feed of eachother and be more successful."

Then I guess the builder with both types in their product line is in good shape.

Last edited by pgp; 05/24/10 02:49 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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