Starting another off-
1) Fractionation of the class
2) Single manufacturer dominance

Volume manufactures. If AHPC can work with Nacra and Hobie to produce and promote a 125kg equivalent to the F16, lets sat they MF16 (manufacturers F16), then you may well see the MF16 become the class that will reach International status, leaving the F16 class to remain a very small isolated class like the F18HT.

...which seems to work for the F18HT, at least in Europe.

I don't thinkt that they (Hobie, Nacra) will have an chance to create another F16 class unless they come to the same weight and cost level.
The threat is more, that they succeed in modifing the class rules to their need

According to the theories going round regarding weight the Viper wouldn't sell a single boat because it is too heavy.
The opposite is true so I don't think the weight rules have any impact on customer behavior.
For the added weight you get a stiff boat with lots of volume which I think has proven is more important then weight.

What I think could happen is a small "arms race" amongst manufacturers trying to bring the weight down, something that I think is good for consumers in the end.

Hard to extrapolate sales numbers to the future and even harder to deduce the reason for it. E.g. AHPC has much more dealers world wide, while the other builder have a more local market. Not to speak about marketing...
But you are right it is of course not only weight. It should have said: weight, performance and cost. And yes, it is good for the customer.

Last time I checked a 125 kg F16 is still an F16 !

With a Global challenge in NL in 2007, UK in 2008 and USA in 2009 and nationals in all these area's plus Australia and others I think the class is a little less "isolated" then you make it out to be.

I haven't seen the big builders match something like that with any of their SMOD products lately (except the H16's or their F18 versions)

Therefore I think this is a pretty empty threat and treat it accordingly.

Wouter

Come on Wouter, there is a reason why it is called the Global Challenge and why it is not an International Class. There are not enough boats in enough countries to be an International class.

You will need to be honest with yourself if you want to grow the class.


2009 US Global Challenge
24 boats
4 non American boats, 2 of them Goodalls

2007 UK Global Challenge
13 Boats
1 non European boat

2008 NL Global Challenge
17 boats

Australian Championships, 8 boats

OK fleets, but still a lot to build on. In AUS, you do not see many F16s, let alone fleets or divisions at regattas. Sounds like it is a common scenario around the world.

The reason for this is alot less honourable I'm afraid.

We are not willing the pay ISAF big bucks for something that is basically a meaningless membership, i.e. without any benefits to us as a class.

If we wanted we could actually apply for international status, we do meet te criteria.

Wouter

Try getting your facts right Wouter.

In cases you have been living under a rock, "The World" is in a huge recession right now...


How many years has the Tornado class been around? 30? More? And the F18 class? At least 15 I think. So the F16 class is still in it's childhood compared to them.

If it were not for the two Alter Cup regattas being sailed on F16's (Blades and Vipers) here in the states, there wouldn't be half as many boats sold. Maybe you guys in "other parts of he World" should work on a similar system, where a single manufacturer supplies 10 brand new boats for a championship, then sells the boats afterwards. Seems to help jump start every class here in the States, be it Caps, Vipers, Blades, Infusions, what ever, it's a good shot in the arm.

What makes any of you non-F16 guys think the F16's "goal" is to Rule the World anyway? The boat is what it is, as Wouter and Kirt told you in another post. It filled an unfilled void that existed at the time. I don't see it taking over the world. If it does, fine, but that's not a stated goal. There are plenty of other classes for that, right now it seems the F18 is the weapon of choice for world wide domination, Good on them. If I had regular crew, I'd probably get one. When my kids are gone, I'll probably get an A cat. So what? If the F16 fits your style, price range, fleets near you, today, get one. If you don't like the F16 rule set, move on. But to be an outsider and try to change the class' rules for...who? Hobie? Nacra?

Most of the real trouble makers here don't even sail F16's. I guess it's not good enough, or "World Wide Enough" or Nacra enough, or Hobie enough for them, which is part of the draw for those of us who actually own and race them...Now, get over it, stay on your F18 or Tornado, or What have you, but don't come in here just because you like to stir up sh!t.

I wish -some people- would stop trying to make all classes "the same". Variety is the spice of life. Not every crew will -fit- on every boat. There are many different active racing classes, from Hobie 16's up through I-20's, and depending on where you live, where the nearest fleet of...what ever... is, how much time and money you have to invest, etc., you should get a boat that fits you and go sail it, and get off our board. In this sh!tty world wide recession, we should all be grateful there are ANY new boats being sold!

Keep your hat on there buddy.

F16 are still in the early stages of development and growth, well there is no problem with that. Stating otherwise is incorrect and I pointed it out...... That is all. Read Wouter's claims above and you will see why I highlighted what I did.

I actually don't believe we are in the earlier stages of development anymore.

More like the mid stages.

We are at the 3rd generation F16's right now and the factors with the big gains have now been exploited. Basically, only small refinements are now left.

Also remember that we started with a good head start. When the F18's were all still using teardrop shaped mast we were already using true wingshaped masts (now also the standard on modern F18's). I also seem to remember the F16's had carbon foils as standard before the F18 class went that way.

In rig development we are quite close to the F18's thanks to Glaser and Goodall.

Over the last 3 years we have made the next step in hullshapes with the Aussie Blade being the first shortly followed by the Viper and then last year by the Falcon. I haven't seen the Aquaraptor in the flesh yet but it is unthinkable that it uses a different setup in this respect. The designers has had to much exposure to the other designs to not have factored in the development embodied in them.

Stephen (Tornado-Alive) and others are spinning so fast that they mainly confuse themselves.

Truly, the F16 has passed beyond the "early stages" (Taipan, first version Stealth, Bimare Javelin)


Wouter

I was speaking in terms of class size, membership numbers, not boat development, which has been very fast considering the age of the class.

The best thing that I can see that has happened to the F16 class over the last few years is the Viper. An example, at EuroCat over the last few years there have been very few F16s, this year there was a fairly strong fleet of Vipers, which was properlly cool.

For me looking from the outside (if i could afford a viper i would buy one, but ive got my Spitfire ) the F16 class all seems a bit foggy, for some one just trying to look at your website there are no dates on the calander and to find second hand boats you have to go on to the forums.
For example is there any F16 Nationals champs in europe, or is the euros the only event?

I think you have hit it one the nose with our biggest current issue! AHPC and the Viper are currently our biggest "marketing" campaign as a class- if you want an example of where we should be right now then look at the F18 class site- I assure you people who are thinking about dropping 15-25K on a boat are.....

Kirt

Kirt, I think you'd make a great referee. We haven't heard from you much in the past several months, maybe you could stick around and remind people to be civil.

Well, if only we could get Phill to pop back up overhere then the old trio is back at the forefront of the class !

This worked very well last time so ... ...

Wouter

I like the idea.