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ARC 22 mast #216603
07/28/10 07:18 PM
07/28/10 07:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline OP
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Mike Fahle  Offline OP
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Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
I was sailing an ARC 22 today with four people aboard in 12 - 17 mph true wind speed. Going upwind with two on trapeze, one hiked, and one on the leeward hull the mast started pumping from app. 6" bend (part prebend, part downhaul) to at least that much in reverse bend (probably much more - it looked scarily wrongly bent when first noticed. Immediately depowered (sheeted out and came in off trapeze). Applied max downhaul to force mast to stay in proper bend (prevent bending backwards in the middle) and that helped but did not keep it from bending back again as power was applied. The spreaders are not adjustable. The owner has already broken a mast when sailing with three up and now I know why.

I am seeking comment from anyone who knows about ARC 22s breaking masts and/or with similar experiences. Especially interested in fixes. We will be contacting Tom Haberman but would first like to survey for similar experiences.

Thanks in advance for useful, on topic, comments.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: Mike Fahle] #216610
07/28/10 10:20 PM
07/28/10 10:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
We have had Supercat 20 tall rigs and a 22 in our fleet for years - I have never heard of this issue with these boats. My guess is something is amiss in the set up.

Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: Keith] #216613
07/28/10 10:35 PM
07/28/10 10:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
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davefarmer  Offline
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Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
Ask Tom for the directions on setting up the diamonds, they're quite exact and complete.

Dave

Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: davefarmer] #216621
07/29/10 06:35 AM
07/29/10 06:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline OP
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Mike Fahle  Offline OP
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Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
The owner told me that this replacement mast was supplied by, and set-up by, Aquarius.

The boat is huge and is ideal for taking other people along but the mast seems unable to support the power that can be developed with the extra righting moment. The owner's first mast broke when they had three guys out together in a breeze.

Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: Mike Fahle] #216624
07/29/10 06:53 AM
07/29/10 06:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Mike Fahle
The owner told me that this replacement mast was supplied by, and set-up by, Aquarius.



Mike,

As you know, I sailed with Skip in the KL Steeplechase on that boat. I felt there were some issues with the mast. I think part of the problem is the sail is too full. I could never depower enough to have much control over the boat. It was way overpowered with two of us in 20 kts. I think it might need a lot more pre-bend and that should stabilized the mast and perhaps allow the sail to support the middle portion.

I agree that the Aquarius folks should have an answer.

I hope you get it sorted out because we need you in the Sandusky Steeplechase.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: Mugrace72] #216658
07/29/10 10:38 AM
07/29/10 10:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline OP
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Mike Fahle  Offline OP
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Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
I just got off the phone on a three way conference call with Tom Haberman of Aquarius Sail, Inc., the company that makes and services the ARC 22, to discuss our questions. Tom was great with explaining everything we needed to know and assuring us how to sail the boat fast and safely. The boat is the ultimate beach cat in size and performance. It is meant to be raced hard with a max crew weight of about 500 pounds. It is fine to take extra people sailing but with a less aggressive aproach.

Anyone getting a chance to sail the boat should jump at it (like I did). Anyone able to buy one should go for it. It is rare these days to get such close personal, expert assistance for any product, especially beach cats, as I have learned that the Haberman's routinely provide. Just read the owner's manual and consult with Aquarius for how you want to use the boat and that guidance should be all you need.

Skip and I feel confidant now that we will sail fast and win the Sandusky Steeplechase this year. You hear that, Rick?! (yes, that's a challenge!)

Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: Mike Fahle] #216707
07/29/10 01:55 PM
07/29/10 01:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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TeamChums  Offline
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
Good luck with getting any longevity out of the aluminum stick. Did Tom mention how many masts Dennis Banks has broken on the 22 in Texas? I think his answer is "it shouldn't do that." everytime. Get a carbon stick for it.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: TeamChums] #216709
07/29/10 02:09 PM
07/29/10 02:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
O
orphan Offline
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orphan  Offline
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O

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
Are the masts breaking upwind,downwind-spin,downwind-no Spin,reach?

Last edited by orphan; 07/29/10 02:10 PM.
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: orphan] #216764
07/30/10 06:40 AM
07/30/10 06:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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catman  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
From what I've seen the problem is the rotation of the mast is controlled by how tight the main sheet is. If the lower batten/boom isn't set up right or if the main sheet isn't hooked far enough forward on the clew plate the mast seems to be over rotated all the time.

A guy here solved the problem by adding a rotation bar to the mast just below max down haul and runs a line from that to the clew plate. Now he has control over how much it can rotate.


Have Fun
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: catman] #216788
07/30/10 11:43 AM
07/30/10 11:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by catman
From what I've seen the problem is the rotation of the mast is controlled by how tight the main sheet is. If the lower batten/boom isn't set up right or if the main sheet isn't hooked far enough forward on the clew plate the mast seems to be over rotated all the time.


Another possibility would be incorrect diamond wire tension. In order to use the same SC17 aluminum section, the SC22 is rigged with two diamonds and one crostree - or at least this is how the one here is rigged. The mast may twist if any of the eight turnbuckles -one for each wire section- is too loose or too tight.


Luiz
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: Luiz] #216808
07/30/10 06:40 PM
07/30/10 06:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
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cyberspeed  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
I have a SC20 with a tall rig which has the same mast as the ARC 22. I didn't have any problems with it until I turtled it and it got shallow. I have had up to 8 people on it and everything looked perfect. Sounds like your diamond wire tension is not right.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: cyberspeed] #216822
07/31/10 05:07 AM
07/31/10 05:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
The boat I was talking about is a super 17 with an ARC sail plan, no spreaders. Spreaders or not ,If the mast is over rotated going upwind the mast will invert or try to.


Have Fun
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: catman] #216826
07/31/10 06:04 AM
07/31/10 06:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Mugrace72  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by catman
From what I've seen the problem is the rotation of the mast is controlled by how tight the main sheet is. If the lower batten/boom isn't set up right or if the main sheet isn't hooked far enough forward on the clew plate the mast seems to be over rotated all the time.



I agree with this. When Skip and I sailed the boat, I don't think we ever got that lower batten set right. It was a real PITA. However, both Bill Roberts and Tom seem to defend these quirks ardently, so who knows. They certainly don't have these issues on their boats,


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: catman] #216839
07/31/10 12:28 PM
07/31/10 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Originally Posted by catman
The boat I was talking about is a super 17 with an ARC sail plan, no spreaders. Spreaders or not ,If the mast is over rotated going upwind the mast will invert or try to.


I was referring to the original post by Mike Fahle which was a ARC 22.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: cyberspeed] #216849
07/31/10 06:17 PM
07/31/10 06:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Originally Posted by catman
The boat I was talking about is a super 17 with an ARC sail plan, no spreaders. Spreaders or not ,If the mast is over rotated going upwind the mast will invert or try to.


I was referring to the original post by Mike Fahle which was a ARC 22.


Same here.


Luiz
Re: ARC 22 mast [Re: Mike Fahle] #217237
08/06/10 07:58 AM
08/06/10 07:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline OP
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Mike Fahle  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Skip Kaub (boat owner) and I set a new Sandusky Steeplechase course record yesterday at 63 minutes! The conditions were ideal for us; about 8 - 10 mph jib reach where we topped out at 22 mph. We have learned a lot about the boat over the past week and it really paid off yesterday to be first to finish (next boat was a Hobie 20 literally too far back to see) and first on corrected time. Repeating what I wrote earlier, if you get a chance to sail an ARC 22, jump at it and thank me later for the advice!


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