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Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) #218916
09/07/10 09:15 AM
09/07/10 09:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 471
NC
D
drbinkle Offline OP
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drbinkle  Offline OP
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D

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 471
NC
Here's the link to the regatta site:

http://www.catfest.net/catfest_2010.htm

If you're planning on attending, please pre-register. This is a great venue with plenty of campsites and top notch facilities. It will also be an opportunity to get out and practice at the same location as this year's D North Alter Cup Qualifier.

Hope to see everyone there!

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: drbinkle] #218917
09/07/10 09:20 AM
09/07/10 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
For you out of townies:

CatFest 2010 ,120 Ruby Lane, Gastonia, NC 28054


Blade F16
#777
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: Timbo] #218919
09/07/10 09:32 AM
09/07/10 09:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 471
NC
D
drbinkle Offline OP
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drbinkle  Offline OP
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NC
Thanks Timbo. That address is Scott Smith's (regatta organizer) home address in case you wanted to send the entry fee with your pre-registration, but it's not required.

The closest address I could find for the club is:

297 Yacht Road
Mooresville, NC 28117

It's about 10-15 minutes from I-77, about 45 minutes north of Charlotte NC.

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: drbinkle] #218920
09/07/10 09:59 AM
09/07/10 09:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
MarkW_F18 Offline
enthusiast
MarkW_F18  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Raleigh/ Wrightsville Beach NC
I'm there..


Mark Williams
F18 H16
http://emsa-sailing.org
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: MarkW_F18] #218928
09/07/10 12:08 PM
09/07/10 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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mikekrantz  Offline
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Posts: 712
Dave and I will be there, launching the new F20c - "Alpha Cat"

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: mikekrantz] #218932
09/07/10 12:50 PM
09/07/10 12:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
watchout for the rating on that one :P

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: ThunderMuffin] #218933
09/07/10 01:15 PM
09/07/10 01:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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mikekrantz  Offline
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Posts: 712
provisional numbers issued

D-PN = 57.9

BN-HC
0-1 = 61.8
2-3 = 58.2
4 = 58.0
5-9 = 57.3

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: mikekrantz] #218935
09/07/10 01:37 PM
09/07/10 01:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I'm there on the A


Jake Kohl
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: Jake] #218939
09/07/10 02:25 PM
09/07/10 02:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
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NCSUtrey  Offline
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Charleston, SC
Originally Posted by Jake
I'm there on the A


Bring the N20, pansy.


Trey
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: NCSUtrey] #218940
09/07/10 02:45 PM
09/07/10 02:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by NCSUtrey
Originally Posted by Jake
I'm there on the A


Bring the N20, pansy.


yeah yeah....I may not make it until Saturday morning and the 20 minute boat setup is much more attractive than is another opportunity to whoop up on you guys at the moment. grin


Jake Kohl
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: drbinkle] #218941
09/07/10 03:19 PM
09/07/10 03:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline
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Isotope235  Offline
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I

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I wish I could make it but Joleen signed us up to run the Force 5 Nationals this week(end). Sigh - Catfest is always fun.

Regards,
Eric

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: mikekrantz] #218942
09/07/10 03:24 PM
09/07/10 03:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Hmmm

ARC 22 ODR spi (SC22) ARC22 57.0 60.4 57.8 56.7 55.3


Marstrom 20 carbon spi M20 58.0 61.0 59.0 57.5 55.0

Nacra F20 NF20 57.9 61.8 58.2 58.0 57.3

I am a bit surprised that the F20 is slower then the ARC 22! Having the rating a microsecond faster then the M20 is just politics. (it's an insignificant difference)

Texel ratings for 20 footers'

Nacra 20... 96
Tornado... 94
Eagle 20.... 89-96 (multiple configs)
Marstrom 20... 85 to 91 (multiple configs)
Nacra F20... 89
Hobie Fox Concept 89

So... on average.. the new carbon boats are 5 to 6 minutes per 100 minutes faster then standard fiberglass cored boats.

The fatal problem for USPN is this... from USSA PN site.
* That each boat placing first in each class was sailed to its true potential by a perfect crew according to flawless strategy;

Translated... this means that when you sail the any boat to its number you win. So... when you are the only boat... you sailed it perfectly...and given the numbers of US boats.
F20 1
M20 2
Arc 22.... 10?

The finish times of the single F20 will represent a perfectly sailed boat against the rest of the fleet.... By definition! pretty soon.... the F20 rating database is simply the owners personal handicap data ...It is not a measure of the boats performance... (unless you think Mike always sails perfect races)

The Portsmouth math simply won't work to generate an accurate rating for the F20 with so few boats out there racing in the US.

We should just use Texel or SCHRS measurement handicaps and stop pretending that PN will work for these new designs in the current environment.

Alternatively... just bracket the boats that use a guesstimate of the USPN rating (based on Texel or SCHRS) and freeze the USPN rating until a fleet materializes and the statistics have some meaning. I would say that a class needs a One design schedule and sufficient multiple boat data points in PN races before it's rating can be unfrozen and the bracket removed.

The world is unkind to boats that don't sail to their measurement rating... (especially if they don't get enough support to form a One Design class)


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: Mark Schneider] #218943
09/07/10 03:41 PM
09/07/10 03:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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mikekrantz  Offline
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Posts: 712
Mark,

The provisional rating was derived by looking at the SCHRS ratings and associated boats. It wasn't just a wild butt guess on the portsmouth committee's part. Whether or not it accurately reflects our performance remains to be seen. Until we hit the water, it's all speculation...

-Mike

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: mikekrantz] #218945
09/07/10 03:51 PM
09/07/10 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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Have you been on the water enough to get a feel for the boat?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: pgp] #218947
09/07/10 03:58 PM
09/07/10 03:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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mikekrantz  Offline
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Posts: 712
still in the assembly stage. Friday should be the first splash

Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: mikekrantz] #218948
09/07/10 04:10 PM
09/07/10 04:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mike

I am sure the USPN guestimated interpolated, calculated... what ever ... the rating from SCHRS or Texel.... but that's not the point. The accuracy of the rating is not the issue.

After 5 races... the provisional status changes... after 15 races ... *not regattas just races) the brackets are removed.... The USPN committee can run the numbers and adjust the F20 DPN rating...

If they do this... the rating will simply reflect your performance. The PN system is just not designed to work well this way...

My solution is just to leave the brackets on the F20 rating until a US Fleet develops and generates enough data from enough different helms for the portsmouth math to work.... Likewise for the M20's and other one of a kind boats.. (CFR 20).

Remember... it was a political decision that brackets around a rating prevented an owner from racing it in the Area Championships. That is the only practical importance of brackets around a rating.

Just let the bracketed ratings represent classes that are not yet statistically averaged (but the PN committee is collecting wind speed data)




crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: Mark Schneider] #218954
09/07/10 06:04 PM
09/07/10 06:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
But what if he wants to race it in an area championship?

You buyin' one Mark? I didn't think so. MYOFB, bud.
That'd be A cat, in case ya forgot.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #218957
09/07/10 06:44 PM
09/07/10 06:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Todd

Fair ratings are every one's business... The F16 FUBAR is proof that the issue should be dealt with at the very beginning....

Racing the F20 in an area championship is only a problem if the process that generates the rating is unfair or formed in a smoke filled room someplace. Remember, It was an area championship that precipitated the F16 FUBAR in the first place. It was an area championship that caused the bracket rule to be enforced in the qualifiers.

If you are using a PN measurement rating that is derived from a SCHRS or Texel measurement rating and interpolated for USPN... so long as the boat in question measures in... aka is a stock boat in the case of the OD F20... What is the problem?

The M20's and CFR 20's can get measured under SCHRS or Texel... get a firm measurement cert and rating ... and translate it to portsmouth and race a qualifier if they want... My proposal is to keep the rating anchored (put brackets around the ratings) until fleets materialize with data.

The rating will be fair to all of the competitors at a qualifier... It will be fair to the F20 owner. The USPN system won't be corrupted anymore then it already is. The process is strait forward and clear. It eliminates much of the politics and BS around ratings (See past history of F16 and to a lesser extent the F18HT, F18, N20 ratings development).

However, you only get the benefit when you publicly announce the policy and put it in writing.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: Jake] #218959
09/07/10 08:14 PM
09/07/10 08:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
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NCSUtrey  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by NCSUtrey
Originally Posted by Jake
I'm there on the A


Bring the N20, pansy.


yeah yeah....I may not make it until Saturday morning and the 20 minute boat setup is much more attractive than is another opportunity to whoop up on you guys at the moment. grin


Sh*t's weak, old man.


Trey
Re: Catfest - LNYC this weekend (Sept. 11-12) [Re: NCSUtrey] #218974
09/08/10 06:43 AM
09/08/10 06:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by NCSUtrey
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by NCSUtrey
Originally Posted by Jake
I'm there on the A


Bring the N20, pansy.


yeah yeah....I may not make it until Saturday morning and the 20 minute boat setup is much more attractive than is another opportunity to whoop up on you guys at the moment. grin


Sh*t's weak, old man.


hah....soon. The General needs to stretch his legs soon though.




Jake Kohl
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