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Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Mark Schneider] #223808
11/10/10 09:29 AM
11/10/10 09:29 AM
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Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
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What do you think our chances would have been if we'd been voted out today?


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: John Williams] #223812
11/10/10 10:13 AM
11/10/10 10:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 120
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maritimesailor Offline
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maritimesailor  Offline
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I'm not keen on forcing mixed crews for both 470 and Multi, and why the choice between board and kites... drop the fin and let both be in!

From valencia sailing:
[Source: IASF] It was the most packed session we have had this week to hear the Events Committee’s recommendation on the provisional Olympic events and equipment for 2016.

This is how the voting went. The Events Committee recommends:

- Board or kite-board for men and women – equipment evaluation
- One person dinghy men – Laser Standard
- One person dinghy women – Laser Radial
- Two person dinghy (skiff) men – 49er
- Two person dinghy (skiff) women – equipment evaluation
- Second one person dinghy men – Finn
- Two person mixed multihull – equipment evaluation
- Two person mixed dinghy with spinnaker – 470
- Women’s keelboat – Elliott 6m

In so doing the committee’s voting recommends taking out the men’s keelboat. The second one person dinghy for women was the other option not to be selected.

The Committee’s recommendations are of course just that. They will go to the ISAF Council for consideration this weekend. After Council vote they are then subject to confirmation at the ISAF Mid-Year meeting in May 2011.


Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: maritimesailor] #223813
11/10/10 10:19 AM
11/10/10 10:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 126
southern Ontario
Twister Offline
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I wonder why the keelboat for women and not men? That is an event that could be mixed, on something like a Viper.


Ryan
Dart 18 #4860
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Twister] #223814
11/10/10 10:22 AM
11/10/10 10:22 AM
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maritimesailor Offline
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I just think the idea of mixed is wrong, should be open, or one for each... how many teams out there (in 470 as well) are now broken up.... Maybe it will work.. who knows.

It does open up the possibility of a Viper (F16) becoming the cat for the olympics though....

Maybe I'm wrong on this... so much of this seems wrong (mixed 470, mixed cat, board OR kites, still has Fin, has a women's keelboat but no mens....) I predict this won't get voted through unchanged.

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: John Williams] #223820
11/10/10 11:55 AM
11/10/10 11:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Quote
What do you think our chances would have been if we'd been voted out today?


Actually... much better had this vote not come out this way!

Had we held firm... not accepted a mixed multihull... The Committees and Councils would have faced going to the IOC without a Multihull again... IMO... they would not have done this suicidal move.

NOW... the Council has cover... they can say.. well the athletes have approved a MIXED Mulit and a MIXED 470... We keep the Finn and dump a keel boat.

The athletes input and the committees have (as usual) been self serving...

WHY women's keel boat? ... answer... because the old women want to find a way to Professional sailing ... It's their priority.... has been for years.

Why Finn.... answer.. Olympic political clout!.... the fig leaf... is they tell the IOC that they are supporting individual athlete events.... (The women's committe wanted NO PART of this Hiking BS... so they get their wish... a women's Keel boat for match racing.)

These people act like sailing a catamaran is like piloting an alien space ship... Tell the old broads to get in shape and hike or trapeeze! ITS A FEAKING ATHLETIC COMPETITION.

The Olympic ideal SHOULD have been
Boards
Skiffs
CATS
Laser/Laser
Finn/Europe

This gives you gender equity... (IOC CHECK) shifts the majority of the sport to individual events (6 of 10) (IOC CHECK) NO Keel Boats... (IOC CHECK). Visually exciting.. Skiffs and Cats. (IOC CHECK)

As always John... Your milage may vary. I would not have compromised... the cost /benefit ratio is not good.

Last edited by Mark Schneider; 11/10/10 04:18 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Mark Schneider] #223823
11/10/10 12:43 PM
11/10/10 12:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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If it does go mixed, there are still 2 different way it could be [depending on the equipement]

Mixed on a performance cat - Something like an F16 would make Olympic sailing a specialist sport that requires a special boat and training squads. This would dilute the sailing that we do

Mixed on a 'Popular' cat - Something like a Hobie 16 would mean that classes like F18 and A class would still flourish and sailors would jump onto the H16 as a sideline for Olympic selection. This would ADD to the sailing that we do at the moment.


Olympic sailing will never be a sideline, there will always be pro sailors taking it very seriously. What I am trying to consider, is how it will effect overall [rank and file] cat sailing across the board

My vote would be for Hobie 16


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: TEAMVMG] #223824
11/10/10 12:57 PM
11/10/10 12:57 PM
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Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Uh oh! Now you've done it!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
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Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: David Ingram] #223827
11/10/10 01:08 PM
11/10/10 01:08 PM
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brucat Offline
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At least he didn't say Hobie 16 with a spinnaker...

Mike

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: brucat] #223829
11/10/10 01:13 PM
11/10/10 01:13 PM
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Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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But that was what he meant....... grin


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: TEAMVMG] #223830
11/10/10 01:15 PM
11/10/10 01:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Quote
Olympic sailing will never be a sideline, there will always be pro sailors taking it very seriously. What I am trying to consider, is how it will effect overall [rank and file] cat sailing across the board


Correct!... Fact of life... the Olympic sailors will not be competing in many regional regattas. they have no time.

So for a popular class like the Hobie 16... no spin!
That means.. they show up for your NA's... When you have 60 to 70 boats on the line for NA's... do 2 Olympic team boats make a difference...
IMO... No.

For a small performance class...eg the Tornado, does it make a difference... IMO Yes... you will never grow the class beyond the Olympic Sailors.

The problem with being the pinnacle of the sport... is that pinnacles are small... IF you have a large pyramid... to support the pinnacle.... great! If you have a narrow cylinder of a class... it is hard to grow this fleet.

I think that with mixed multihull... you take the Laser philosophy (Simple boat) and pick a Hobie 16 no chute.... You value popularity over performance.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Jalani] #223831
11/10/10 01:50 PM
11/10/10 01:50 PM
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The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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Originally Posted by Jalani
But that was what he meant....... grin


or a prindle 16; maybe a solcat?

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Kennethsf] #223832
11/10/10 01:53 PM
11/10/10 01:53 PM
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Posts: 133
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Kennethsf Offline
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Originally Posted by Kennethsf
Originally Posted by Jalani
But that was what he meant....... grin


or a prindle 16; maybe a solcat?


found it..



Attached Files
olympic mixed.jpg (371 downloads)
Last edited by Kennethsf; 11/10/10 01:58 PM.
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Kennethsf] #223836
11/10/10 01:59 PM
11/10/10 01:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 133
The Netherlands
Kennethsf Offline
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Kennethsf  Offline
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Originally Posted by Kennethsf
Originally Posted by Kennethsf
Originally Posted by Jalani
But that was what he meant....... grin


or a prindle 16; maybe a solcat?


found it..




anyway- happy that first step is done to get multihulls back into the olympics

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Kennethsf] #223837
11/10/10 02:13 PM
11/10/10 02:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
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Im not trying to blame anyone here but, there still seems to be a lot of shitty boats recomended by the commitee IMO. Nothing really seems to have changed...what a shame. Isaf has a chance to do something good and its just the same old ****.


Aido
Viper 288
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: maritimesailor] #223858
11/10/10 05:49 PM
11/10/10 05:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
rhodysail Offline
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Originally Posted by maritimesailor


- Board or kite-board for men and women – equipment evaluation
- One person dinghy men – Laser Standard
- One person dinghy women – Laser Radial
- Two person dinghy (skiff) men – 49er
- Two person dinghy (skiff) women – equipment evaluation
- Second one person dinghy men – Finn
- Two person mixed multihull – equipment evaluation
- Two person mixed dinghy with spinnaker – 470
- Women’s keelboat – Elliott 6m



This could be interesting if the Star lobby started to push the 5&5 proposals as a way to survive.

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: TEAMVMG] #223876
11/11/10 01:56 AM
11/11/10 01:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
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Devon Offline
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The Hobie 16 is the introduction cat to the olympics eg youth worlds so I really dont think it will be chosen, anyhow the decision to go mixed cat is just as bad as dropping the tornado, If we summerise the pros and cons mixed = epic fail!
ISAF = bunch of monohull dinasours and the multihull council that is allowing the ISAF to dictate to them = piss weak
And that isnt because it isnt what I want, it is because its true! Any how if it happens to be in mixed hobie 16 I will get the chance to smash any olympic gold medalist team in my 10 yr old 17 ft nacra 1 up or 2 up or even if im drunk as a skunk and fall overboard, no challenge!

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: John Williams] #223905
11/11/10 12:31 PM
11/11/10 12:31 PM
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Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
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John Willams, thanks for all you do for Multihull Sailing World wide. Remember,John is there fighting for our cause, and deserves all our support.
Caleb Tarleton

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: rhodysail] #223908
11/11/10 01:09 PM
11/11/10 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
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Originally Posted by rhodysail
Originally Posted by maritimesailor


- Board or kite-board for men and women – equipment evaluation
- One person dinghy men – Laser Standard
- One person dinghy women – Laser Radial
- Two person dinghy (skiff) men – 49er
- Two person dinghy (skiff) women – equipment evaluation
- Second one person dinghy men – Finn
- Two person mixed multihull – equipment evaluation
- Two person mixed dinghy with spinnaker – 470
- Women’s keelboat – Elliott 6m



This could be interesting if the Star lobby started to push the 5&5 proposals as a way to survive.


I was thinking the same thing!


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: scooby_simon] #223959
11/12/10 08:54 AM
11/12/10 08:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
rhodysail Offline
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From Ben Barger: "Voted on submission 96 passed for new event selection procedure. Now to 97 and the vote."

Re: Multihulls and the Olympics [Re: Mark Schneider] #223961
11/12/10 09:15 AM
11/12/10 09:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
As always John... Your milage may vary. I would not have compromised... the cost /benefit ratio is not good.


Mark, your input is, of course, appreciated. But I think you're just wrong. We tried the "no compromise" approach and it was an abject failure. When there was still a chance of getting to Weymouth, we ruined it by allowing naïveté and bullish behaviour to guide our effort. For Christ's sake, we threatened to sue!

It is too easy in righteous indignation to dig in your heels and refuse to budge. Is 5/5 the right way to go for sailing as a sport? Of course it is. And we are on record in a positive and constructive way as saying so, steadfastly and consistently; but not to the exclusion of all else anymore. Watching the classes struggle to stay alive in the Olympic arena was, for me, a tremendously humbling experience. The truth is that they are all, every one, in the same state as us. There are no rock-solid alliances, lobbying juggernauts, or perfect strategies. We have had equal presence at ISAF meetings for the last three years, and THAT is what did the trick. We just have to show up to stay topical and visible, smile and start conversations, and keep a positive outlook.

For now and through 2015, we are the mixed multihull event. The groundwork for a men's and a women's event in 2020 is laid, and mixed is a part of that strategy. I'm sorry you don't like the plan, but your way of doing it wasn't working. Varying mileage? Your no-compromise approach kept us at the ramp, looking on. By playing the game, we got all the way to Rio.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
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