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Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: FLL] #228762
02/17/11 05:00 PM
02/17/11 05:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
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ksurfer2 Offline
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tampa, fl
Originally Posted by FLL
I have this question. I've day sailed for years, but certainly don't know the ins and outs of course racing. I'm thinking of doing the upcoming Macho. Who is willing to help new people or where do you go for help.
Thanks
Forrest

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Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Mark Schneider] #228763
02/17/11 05:05 PM
02/17/11 05:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 71
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F18_VB Offline
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I think it is hard to overstate the importance of individuals inviting people on their boat to expanding the sport. I can't think of many people that got into sailing, let alone cat sailing, without being invited to sail with someone else. This should include both friends and family. Cats are enough fun that just bringing someone out on a recreational sail will frequently hook them. I used to have my old roommate crew on my F18. Now he owns his own H16 and wants to buy my F18 to race. Some German tourists that I met on the beach and took out sailing have now switched from a 470 to an F18.

One of the down sides to relying on a yacht club to bring in youth sailors is that most of them will be children of members. Unless yacht club members are having 3+ children that all end up sailing as adults, this is not a way to grow the sport.

However, yacht clubs do provide the social aspect that is important to growing sailing. A lot of Hobie fleets do a great job at having a lot of fun at regattas too. Friends and family are more likely than strangers to feel part of a social group than random strangers showing up at a yacht club to learn to sail.

On the question of families sailing... I got into sailing by crewing for my dad on a H16 for two seasons. Then, I wanted to be the skipper. So, we got an old H16 and me and two of my other 9 year old friends (that also used to crew for their parents) went out racing against the adults. A couple years later, we split into two teams and were in the middle of B fleet. By high school we were in the middle of A fleet. There are now two boats sailed by third generation H16 sailors with the parents still racing and the grandparents still involved with it. So, it does work.

Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: F18_VB] #228764
02/17/11 05:14 PM
02/17/11 05:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Chicago, Illinois USA
I've had luck with inviting people to sail as well. A friend of mine was a comitted monohull guy. He came with me when I picked up my boat. We sailed a little and the speed hooked him right away. He bought a boat and is now a cat sailor. He's an older guy who had the $$, but he's joined the ranks and is trying to promote racing in northern CA.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: TEH] #228772
02/17/11 10:45 PM
02/17/11 10:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
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Originally Posted by TEH
Do you do more to promote H14/H16 sailing to develop a feeder pool? Those boats are certainly inexpensive and can hook you into cat sailing. It did for me.
That's exactly what I do, of the dozen or so I've resurrected in the last five years only four have been sold to folks under 30.
I've succumbed to the realization that's a pretty good percentage.
The percentage (below age 30) of people who have contacted me to help them "put their boat together, set it up, show them a few pointers" are about 25%.
I've set through a many boat/sport shows and bent the ear of many a young lad and lassie, but more often than not the ones that call back are nearer my age (53).
I wish they were all young, but if someone asks, I'm helping out, no matter what their age.


John H16, H14
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: TEH] #228773
02/17/11 10:58 PM
02/17/11 10:58 PM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



I was sailing with a 70 year-young cat builder last weekend. We were the only 2 out sailing (it was about 62*, which is very cold for floridians). He thinks the new AC will attract a new blood / generation into the sport. I think he could be right if there is enough coverage for people to see how amazing of a sport/thrill it is.

BUT.... there are so many obstacles to entry into this sport and it's not getting easier. We are losing public launch areas, at least $1000 to get your feet wet (give or take) on a 20 year old hobie or similar, no media coverage, other exotic sports that are cheaper to get into, etc.

Our community sailing center could care less about cats. They have a few waves for members, but thats as far as they go.

Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: ] #228774
02/17/11 11:37 PM
02/17/11 11:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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.... and how deep in dept to you think alot of these young kids are when they finish tech school/college w/ all the "loans" needed to pay for and complete their education ... then at what percentage of their wages, and for how long does it take to pay these depts off???? Leaving how much "disposable" income????

"Toys" are expensive .... even 20yr old ones ....

Harry

Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: FLL] #228778
02/18/11 06:56 AM
02/18/11 06:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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catman  Offline
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
You have to go where the people are. Gulfport has course racing. You can come down to Dunedin Causeway and hang with us,


Have Fun
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: catman] #228792
02/18/11 10:41 AM
02/18/11 10:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
I would concur that one of the biggest constraints on an individual in the 25-45 age range is TIME followed by budget.

I listed time first, because we don't all have to be boat owners. Acting as crew can be cheap, but all of this takes time, which younger folk with loans to pay, kids to raise, etc. pretty much monopolizes any semblance of free time for hobbies which don't include the whole family.


Jay

Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: waterbug_wpb] #228798
02/18/11 11:38 AM
02/18/11 11:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Sloansailing Offline
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Sloansailing  Offline
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Anacortes
OK so I'm speaking as a 32 year old sailor, who was raised by a family that sailed. I can remember cruising with my grand father at a very young age on the Chesapeake. I sailed solo for the first time on a lake in Michigan on the family's Sunfish when I was 8. I've been sailing keelboats my whole life and I make a living in the sailing industry. Here are some thoughts I've had concerning driving people into sailing, whether cats or monohulls, hell even boards and kites...

1) You have to really WANT to sail (or race) to do it. Its a complex sport that takes a certain level of knowledge and skill to participate. It also takes a certain kind of attitude to push yourself to get better. If you aren't "into" it you won't be into it for long. This I think is the issue with younger folks that has been noted above, that young people these days have short attention with little follow through or commitment to what they are doing, or learning to do.

2) Cost I don't think is as much of an issue as everyone makes out. Hell, people spend $6k on a mountain bike to go to Whistler. People spend $20k on a motorcycle to race at the track. If you WANT to sail you can get into sailing and even racing for a reasonable cost. I started racing on my dads keelboat that cost him $2k. I liked it so I started sailing with other keelboats. If you want to sail it does not have to be more expensive than other sports.

3) Agree time is a huge factor, and probably the biggest detriment to people getting out sailing. IF you CHOOSE to have kids, you are dedicating A HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME to raising your children. Don't expect to be able to continue doing everything you did before. People that are <30 and have kids have given up a lot, in terms of time and $. My wife and I don't have kids, and find it pretty easy to afford $ and time to sail. If we had kids, we wouldn't, simple.

4) It is an interesting attitude cat sailors have towards Yacht Clubs. "They don't want us around" is the attitude I generally perceive. But, if you just ask to be around, the YC will gladly welcome cats. I did this for a regatta in April at our local YC, that has never hosted cats, and they are super excited about it. If you ask, you can participate, but don't expect the YC to ask you to participate, its up to you.

I guess my general feeling is that I almost agree with whoever said sailing is about as big as it needs to be. Our culture in the states doesn't lend itself to sailing very well, with the complexity of the sport, and the ever increasing simplicity of the US mind. I also agree that getting people out sailing is the best thing we can do for the sport. When we had our keelboat, we'd take people out all the time. Of course, the % of those people who followed through and began sailing on a regular basis is like 10%. Thats just the fact, not everyone is going to do it. Its a hard sport. So lets just keep pushing how great it is and hopefully more people will start doing it.

I also think the AC has done something for making the sport exciting for more people. Hopefully we will see this in the next few years.


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Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Sloansailing] #228799
02/18/11 11:41 AM
02/18/11 11:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Sloansailing Offline
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Anacortes
And yes, most of you cat sailors are old farts! wink


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Rigging and Yacht Services
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Sloansailing] #228803
02/18/11 12:02 PM
02/18/11 12:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Very true about not having enough time (or money) once the kids show up. You notice most of our younger (20's-40's)racers don't have any kids. And the older ones kids are grown up and gone.

My buddies in my NH Air National Guard unit had a "Name the Babies" constest when it was discovered my wife would be having twins.

There were lots of very funny names up on the chalk board in the briefing room; Jose and Hose B, Thing 1 and Thing 2, Frick and Frack, etc. but when the vote came down, the overwhelming winners were,


"No Boat and No Motorcycle"

I had just sold both my J24 and BMW R100S to get money for the downpayment for our first house. It was 6 years before I got back out on a sailboat, a borrowed JY 15 at a club. Then I started the twins in Opti's, then moved them up to JY15's, etc. But the Club we were at had a great kids program with Opti's and 3 loaner JY's.

Without that club and their loaner boats, well, I doubt I'd have ever gotten back into sailing. I only got into cats because a neighbor took me out double trapping on his Hobie 20. I thought my 505 was fast, until that day! As a mono only guy, I never thought cats could do anything but reach fast and then flip over.

When Dennis Connor used that 60' cat to stomp Fey in the 1988 (?) America's Cup, then I started thinking -maybe- cats might be something to look into.

I still have not replaced the motorcycle, probably never will. Racing the Blade Uni, downwind, in a good blow fills my sporadic need for an adreneline rush, and I don't have to wear a helmet...yet.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Sloansailing] #228804
02/18/11 12:05 PM
02/18/11 12:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Chicago, Illinois USA
Well here is what I've learned since starting this thread:

1. Cat sailors really are mostly old guys
2. Some people think the sport is good for now and will pretty much be OK regardless of whether there is effort put into bringing in younger sailors plus it may get a boost from the AC hype.
3. Others feel that three is a a threat as our kids gravitate more towards the internet/electonics, etc. Plus the boats are too expensive and there's not enough time.
4. Some people are proactive and encourage cat sailing on older, cheaper cats, having younger kids crew, taking people sailing and approaching their local yacht club to gain exposure.

I think I'm with the #4 proactive crowd.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: TEH] #228806
02/18/11 12:14 PM
02/18/11 12:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Here's the "Problem" with cats and yacht clubs. Cats do take up more storage space, pure and simple. I was at a Laser club in Sydney a couple weeks ago, they had about 60 Lasers all stored on racks, floor to ceiling, inside a barn. They had a very small beach to launch from, but they got 50 Lasers out racing and told me that was pretty typical for a Saturday club race.

As I looked around the club grounds, tightly packed in between some other businesses and across the street from a public park, I didn't see ANYPLACE where a -single- cat could have been stored, mast up, let alone several cats.

Even if someone had shown up with a cat on a trailer, he would have taken up the grassy space of 3 Lasers, just putting the thing together.

So there is no doubt that the extra space a Catamaran needs for storage (especially mast up) has something to do with any Yacht Club's acceptance of them.

You can't stack 60 cats inside a small club shed, or rig 60 cats up in a small yard, or launch them all off a small, narrow beach.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Timbo] #228807
02/18/11 12:45 PM
02/18/11 12:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Sebring, Florida.
Here's something else to consider when it comes to getting more young sailors out on cats. Name one sailing club in America where any kid off the street, or adult for that matter, can walk in and take a cat out for a day.

One thing those two dinghy clubs I mentioned above have in common, they both have loaner boats for any newbie to jump into and get out on the water, pronto, and they have instructors and chase boats available on a Saturday.

The Gulfport club is the only "Catamaran" club I've seen that has the space for storage of very many cats, but I'm not sure if they have -any- loaner boats for newbies, or even a kids "Learn to Sail Cats" type program.

If you had a club with the space and funding to buy a fleet of Hobie Waves, and maybe some 16's for older kids and adults, you could have the same type programs those dinghy clubs have, and you'd get more people out on cats.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Timbo] #228809
02/18/11 12:56 PM
02/18/11 12:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
Space is not the reason why you don't see multi's at a lot of yacht clubs. It's the fact that the vast majority of beachcat sailors won't join a yacht club. There is no reason the Hobie Wave could not have the same numbers as the Laser at a yacht club.

In FL there are quite a few yacht clubs that are extremely cat friendly:

In Florida alone:

Miami Yacht Club
The Rudder Club
Gulfport Yacht Club
Fort Walton Yacht Club
Davis Island Yacht Club (Hosting the 2011 Area D South Semi Finals)
New to the list Charlotte Harbor Yacht Club.
I also suspect there is a cat friendly club in Pamama City, we get to go there in October.


A yacht club or any other organization for that matter will only go in the direction of its leadership. You want your local yacht club to support beachcats 1 - join, 2 - get involved. If you're willing to do the work 99% of the time there will be nobody standing in your way. Granted it can be giant pain in the a$$ and you'll have plenty of people pissing in your ear telling you how you're doing it wrong but in the end you will get results and it will be worth while.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Timbo] #228811
02/18/11 01:04 PM
02/18/11 01:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Chicago, Illinois USA
TEH Offline OP
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TEH  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Chicago, Illinois USA
The mobility of the sport doesn't help the loaner situation.

CRAW regularly brings a trailer with Bic's for the kids to sail because you can haul them around. That's all it took for my daughter.

Also, once kids can handle the kite, the dads have them crew. One member went as far as to buy a F16 so that his 12 year old could crew, rather than waiting till he was big enough to handle a F18 kite. Later they have them at helm.

I would guess we now have 6-8 members in the sub 30 age bracket. 2-3 race one of their dad's boats and another bought a old F18. The rest crew.


Blade F16 USA 725
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: Timbo] #228812
02/18/11 01:16 PM
02/18/11 01:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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A couple of responses ....

To "SloanSailing": Yes, we are .... but we are FAST ol'farts!!!!!

To TEH: I'm in that 4th grouping also .... I finally joined a offical Yacht Club 5yrs ago after +25yrs of being a Catamaran "Gypsy" and a member of the "Backyard" Yacht Club scene .... I now try to leave one of my catamarans (of two I own) down at the club w/ the stick up, right next to the sailing school so all the Junior Sailors have to pass by when they walk up to the clubhouse. I offer rides/lessons to all-comers, young and old ... I even let some of the Juniors take my TheMightyHobie18 for a sail ...we host in June a +75 boat Regatta w/ seperate A-Cat class, F-16 class and Open Catamaran classes on a Catamaran course ... and in September we host a Hobie Div11 Points Regatta.

And last year, we hosted the CBYRA Junior Olympic Festival ... including for the first time in US Sailing history a Junior Multihull (on H16's) and Windsurfer Classes !!!!

Anything I've asked of the club they have agreed to and done ...

If you are in the area ... come on by, it's alittle off the "beaten" track" ... but check out our "little piece of heaven" ... you are looking for Rock Hall Yacht Club, Rock Hall Md located on Maryland's beautiful Eastern Shore. We race/sail on the Chester River, just south of Langford Creek at a wide spot called "Hell's Delight" (according to my ADC Chart book)...

... and PLEASE join your local yacht club!!!!
:

Harry
H18Mag/P19MX

Last edited by HMurphey; 02/19/11 02:25 PM. Reason: spellin'
Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: HMurphey] #228813
02/18/11 01:34 PM
02/18/11 01:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
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Oh Timbo:

RHYC ownes +19 acres of ground ... of which approximently 9 acres is open grass/field (that I help mow), the rest is preserved pine forest .... of that 9 acres the clubhouse/pool/bathhouse/gazebo/parking lot maybe takes up 1-2 acres .... leaving alot of room for "boat set-up" .... oh, and there is a nice 75-100' wide beach w/ a shallow gradiant leading to a nice flat sandy bottom that varies (due to tides) from calf deep to waist deep ....

Harry

Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: HMurphey] #228814
02/18/11 01:38 PM
02/18/11 01:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
JJ_ Offline
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JJ_  Offline
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It's rigging and money.

Problem with ol' farts introducing new folks to cat sailing it is that ol' farts like things complicated and expensive.

Re: Cat Sailors - All Old Guys? [Re: HMurphey] #228818
02/18/11 05:06 PM
02/18/11 05:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
old hand
David Parker  Offline
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Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
[quote] "Toys" are expensive .... even 20yr old ones ..../quote]

Now that's an excuse I had not thought of. If you are still dating 20 year olds it's your own damn fault for finding that action too expensive. "High maintenance" is the catch phrase for that kind of 20 year old. "CPF" was the term we used to use...cost per ####.

Old guys know that sailing is cheaper than dating. A twenty year old? Are you out of your mind?

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