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Spin trim help #230097
03/22/11 08:20 AM
03/22/11 08:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 186
Chattanooga, TN
jody Offline OP
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jody  Offline OP
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Chattanooga, TN
Joanna and I have noticed that since we have been running the goodall spin that we seem to have a very fine area where it is flying and that it seems to need to be tight most of the time. Does any one have a suggestion of any adjustments we can look at making to let it fill out some more or is this what others are finding with this spin?

thanks


Jody Blade F16 724 Plays with Sharp Objects
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Re: Spin trim help [Re: jody] #230178
03/23/11 04:11 PM
03/23/11 04:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Gilo Offline
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Jody,

Do you have this feeling at every windspeed?
I had the same feeling with the landenberger spi at a very wide windrange. It also meant I had to steer higher downwind then the average cat on the race track.
2 most important things to know here is if your luff tensions is ok for that spin (too much and it might be too full toward the middle, or vice versa) and what the ideal sheeting angle is (this might differ between the Blade and viper for which the spin was made).

With the Glaser spin now used on the Falcon it is totally
different. You easily feel the sweet spot. You can easily let it out, with the result that you have massive power and steer quite deep.

Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Gilo] #230185
03/23/11 05:21 PM
03/23/11 05:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Michigan
I made the mistake recently of messing with the luff line in the tape of my spin last week. Changed things some maybe not for the better since it seemed not to have much of a range. IMO one needs a PhD in spinology to really determine what the correct luff tension is for the boat, spin, and sailing style.

Re: Spin trim help [Re: PTP] #230188
03/23/11 07:54 PM
03/23/11 07:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 404
Chattanooga, TN
Joanna Offline
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Gill-
I have issues at all the wind speeds. Feel like I have to pull it in very tight to keep it flying correctly. Have checked luff, seemed fine, but will do that again. The Glaser spin seemed to have a much larger "range", or easier to keep flying. Will also check the sheeting angles next time we are out. I noticed the difference btw the two from the start.

Last edited by Joanna; 03/23/11 07:55 PM.

Joanna

Blade F16
"Too Sharp to Touch"
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Joanna] #230189
03/23/11 08:12 PM
03/23/11 08:12 PM
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Michigan
PTP Offline
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What is the correct sheeting angle? 1/3 from tack? Whatever gives best shape? What is the best shape?

Re: Spin trim help [Re: PTP] #230196
03/23/11 11:48 PM
03/23/11 11:48 PM

S
Scarecrow
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Scarecrow
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S



you should play with the sheeting angle in the smae way you do with a jib. ie fwd to flatten the top of the sail and/or add shape down low or aft to add shape up high or flatten down low. put some wools on your kite it will make all the difference.

Re: Spin trim help [Re: ] #230202
03/24/11 05:33 AM
03/24/11 05:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 404
Chattanooga, TN
Joanna Offline
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Joanna  Offline
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"wools" is that the same as "tell tails"?


Joanna

Blade F16
"Too Sharp to Touch"
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Joanna] #230204
03/24/11 07:11 AM
03/24/11 07:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 118
Pensacola, FL
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Cab Offline
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Pensacola, FL
Joanna,
I think the luff on the Goodall spin is a little shorter, 6-8 inches. I remember that you guys moved the block on your mast down when you made the change. I moved the pole a little higher because I was sailing uni and not using the pelican striker. Mine seems to work fine, the same as the Glaser. The vipers carry their spin pole higher than the blades. Maybe that has shifted your sheeting angle a little?


Chris
Trident F16
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Cab] #230207
03/24/11 07:43 AM
03/24/11 07:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 186
Chattanooga, TN
jody Offline OP
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Chattanooga, TN
So by lowering the spin we would have to move the sheeting angle forward I guess? Is there any special backing for the spin blocks if I move them forward?
I do think you are probably right one that Chris since we moved the Goodall job tack up a few inches the boat seems to be pointing and performing better. Also makes more sense on the lower part of the jib near the foot of the main where more power can be used (I think that is right).
So to move the spin pole up some I assume we need a shorter pelican striker?


Jody Blade F16 724 Plays with Sharp Objects
Re: Spin trim help [Re: jody] #230208
03/24/11 07:55 AM
03/24/11 07:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
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Crofton, MD
Maybe before drilling holes in things try heasing the haylard off some or maybe a lot...


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Joanna] #230209
03/24/11 08:01 AM
03/24/11 08:01 AM
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Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Originally Posted by Joanna
"wools" is that the same as "tell tails"?


Some peope HATE tell tales on their spinnakers.

My first spinnaker came without tell tales, the second with. It's the difference between night and day for me, I have to have them.



Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Spin trim help [Re: Chris9] #230210
03/24/11 08:03 AM
03/24/11 08:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 439
Memphis, TN
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mikeborden Offline
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Memphis, TN
Have you measured the distance of the end of your spin pole to the top where the spin hoists to?

Here's what I have been told to do....

Measure the head of the spin to the tack. When you get that measurement, then add 1% to it. That should be your measurement from the end of your spin pole to the point where it hoists to.

Mike


Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: Spin trim help [Re: jody] #230212
03/24/11 08:14 AM
03/24/11 08:14 AM
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Posts: 118
Pensacola, FL
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Cab Offline
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Pensacola, FL
Jody,
An easy test would be to put the spin block back in the original place on the mast, raise the spin pole using a piece of line instead of the pelican striker, go out without the jib and see if the spin does better. If it does, I think it would be easy to make a pelican striker that is a few inches shorter.


Chris
Trident F16
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Cab] #230218
03/24/11 09:38 AM
03/24/11 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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When you are sailing downwind, are you always trying to be on one hull? I always want to be on one hull unless it will lead to a swim.

I have 2 spins. A very "full" cut spin and a very flat one. I've found it's easier for me to fly a hull using the very flat one, I can head up, get the hull up, accelerate and ride it downwind on one hull much easier than with the very full cut spin, which doesn't want to go high enough to get the hull up in medium air.

In heavier air, I run deep on two hulls usually (when running on one will most likely result in a pitch-pole) so the fuller cut spin is better for that.

It is a little counter-intuitive, you would think the flater spin would be better (de-powered) in bigger winds but actually it's better in lighter air as you must head up higher to get the hull up. The fuller spin is better for running deep on two hulls in big air.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Timbo] #230219
03/24/11 09:41 AM
03/24/11 09:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 186
Chattanooga, TN
jody Offline OP
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Chattanooga, TN
Tim who made each spin?


Jody Blade F16 724 Plays with Sharp Objects
Re: Spin trim help [Re: jody] #230223
03/24/11 09:56 AM
03/24/11 09:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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The fuller one is an older Glaser, from about 4 (?) years ago. The flatter one is about 1yr. old Landenberger.

The fuller one is easier to keep from stalling, but as I said before, you can't go as high with it to get the hull up in light/medium wind, where as the Landy is much easier to "heat it up" and get going after the set, get a hull up and get cruising. But when it's really blowing, I don't sail on one hull.


The times I've tried to go on one hull in big wind, I seem to stuff it to the mast too often, which really slows you down, even if you don't go swimming. I've found it's more 'productive' to sail it deep on two hulls and jump over the waves rather than plow through them on one hull and stuff it to the mast.

But in medium wind I want to be on one hull all the time, upwind and down, so the flatter spin works better for that.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Timbo] #230226
03/24/11 11:01 AM
03/24/11 11:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 186
Chattanooga, TN
jody Offline OP
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Chattanooga, TN
how tight are you running the flatter spin on the sheets.


Jody Blade F16 724 Plays with Sharp Objects
Re: Spin trim help [Re: jody] #230229
03/24/11 11:41 AM
03/24/11 11:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL
Matt M Offline
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Originally Posted by jody
how tight are you running the flatter spin on the sheets.


This should not matter. The sail should fly within a broad range of sheet tension settings.
Rig the sail with the luff tension “in the ball park” 45-90 degrees with a fist twist. Then sail it.
You can try different sheeting angles to see then if that is the issue or the sail is just a bad cut. If it is relatively light have the crew below and hold the sheets simulating more forward or a more aft sheet location. Forward will pull the leach and aft will pull the foot more. If it is windy it is easy to rig a quick moveable sheet point much like the old barberhauler system on my H20.

The F16 has a max hoist height and a max spin pole length, so the potential combination of triangles for the sail are pretty limited. The Viper has a higher set pole but on the Blade if you jack up the pole the jib is also moved, so watch out screwing up that sail trim in the process. I would not go drilling new holes or cutting strikers off until you know that this is the fix that will actually work.

Re: Spin trim help [Re: jody] #230230
03/24/11 11:43 AM
03/24/11 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Pretty tight at times, maximum in, but that's only when I'm really trying to get as high as possible, usually when the wind is on the lighter side. Normally I'm easing and trimming continually trying to keep the luff on the edge of curling.

Also counter intuitive; easing the halyard will actually make the luff a little flatter so you can point a little higher, and pulling the halyard tighter will put more of a curl into the luff, which is ok when running deep in big air, but not what you want for pointing in light air.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Spin trim help [Re: Timbo] #230231
03/24/11 11:49 AM
03/24/11 11:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Now Jody, if you would hurry up and get down here, we could get out and practice all this stuff on days like today!

Supposed to be 88 today, 92 by Sunday, and it's blowing 13 G 25 out back right now. I'm going on a bike ride now but when I get back, I'm going sailing.



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Blade F16
#777
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