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TNZ flipped AC-45 #231326
04/19/11 11:23 PM
04/19/11 11:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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Waiting to get pics and more stories but now 2 have flipped.


Richard Vilvens
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PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: F-18 5150] #231329
04/20/11 01:21 AM
04/20/11 01:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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Emirates Team New Zealand today confirmed that their AC45 had capsized in Auckland while training today.

The one design wingsailed catamaran left the Viaduct Harbour just before 1000hrs this morning and returned soon after noon.

A Team confirmed the incident had taken place when approached by Sail-World, saying the time of the capsize was late this this morning (Wednesday) NZT.

The yacht toppled on to its side as it rounded a mark. No one was injured. The yacht was righted without incident and it sailed back to base, Sail-World was told.

Minor damage to the top of the wing will be repaired overnight and the yacht will be back on the water tomorrow.

Skipper Dean Barker said the capsize was all part of the learning process. 'Every time we take the yacht out we test to the limits in the conditions prevailing otherwise there’s no point to the testing process.'

No cameras were on hand to video the incident. A southwesterly wind (offshore) was blowing at the time gusting to 29 kts.

Emirates Team NZ are the second team to capsize an AC45. The first being the Swedish Artemis Racing about a month ago, when the wing stalled and the yacht tipped over while the crew were taking a break in training. The damage took three days to repair.

On that occasion the damage was more severe, and for America's Cup event organisers and teams it is encouraging to see that the wingsailed boats can capsize without creating major rig destruction.

The AC45 is due to be sailing tomorrow along with Camper, the Emirates Team NZ campaigned Volvo 70, launched last week.

Trials for the 34th America's Cup race management are due to get underway next week on the Hauraki Gulf, and are not expected to be impacted by this incident.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: F-18 5150] #231331
04/20/11 05:48 AM
04/20/11 05:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Gusting to 29 and they went out to practice? Practice what, bleeding? And they fipped...geez, did not see that coming...

Have they decided what the limits will be for the bigger cats in the actual AC Regatta yet?


Blade F16
#777
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231333
04/20/11 06:46 AM
04/20/11 06:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo
Gusting to 29 and they went out to practice? Practice what, bleeding? And they fipped...geez, did not see that coming...

Have they decided what the limits will be for the bigger cats in the actual AC Regatta yet?


Limits for the big cats will be 33knots. ... They need to be practicing!


Jake Kohl
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Jake] #231339
04/20/11 08:26 AM
04/20/11 08:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Yeah...practicing rescues!


Blade F16
#777
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231341
04/20/11 09:02 AM
04/20/11 09:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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And if they had stayed on the beach the forum response would have been... "good call guys, you don't want to break a nail"

The pucker factor on those things in that breeze has to be off the chart! Lucky bastards!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: David Ingram] #231343
04/20/11 09:12 AM
04/20/11 09:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 186
Chattanooga, TN
jody Offline
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Chattanooga, TN
It is got to be easier to go out in upper wind conditions when you know that if it breaks someone else will fix it and pay for it. And the response of we are testing the limits works to get you out of trouble for breaking the boat.


Jody Blade F16 724 Plays with Sharp Objects
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231344
04/20/11 09:13 AM
04/20/11 09:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 172
Anacortes
Sloansailing Offline
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Sloansailing  Offline
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Anacortes
Originally Posted by Timbo
Gusting to 29 and they went out to practice? Practice what, bleeding? And they fipped...geez, did not see that coming...


WTF? These are professional sailors, going after a major international trophy. Did you read Barkers quote? You could turn the boats over in 15 knots too, but the fact they are out in the breeze is laudable.

Not everyones balls are as small as yours, and their boats are probably much more capable too.

Back off on the BS criticism and accept that at least some people push the limits.


Anacortes Rigging.com
Rigging and Yacht Services
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Sloansailing] #231345
04/20/11 09:20 AM
04/20/11 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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I'm reminded of an old saying we have in flying, "There's a thin line between brave and stupid."

So tell me Mr. Big Nutz, at what point does Big Balls turn into Fkng stupid? And how much "practice" did they accomplish? About all they learned was, "Well, I guess we won't do that again." Brilliant.


Blade F16
#777
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231347
04/20/11 10:10 AM
04/20/11 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Timbo
I'm reminded of an old saying we have in flying, "There's a thin line between brave and stupid."

So tell me Mr. Big Nutz, at what point does Big Balls turn into Fkng stupid? And how much "practice" did they accomplish? About all they learned was, "Well, I guess we won't do that again." Brilliant.


As Jake pointed out 33 is the upper limit for the big boats and they were still below that limit.

I'm quite sure they learned more than just "we won't do that again"?

Props to NZL for going out and learning how to go fast in ALL conditions!

Watching these guys run the big rigs in 30 knots is going to be spectacular and by the time they get to the big show they will make it look effortless.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: David Ingram] #231350
04/20/11 10:32 AM
04/20/11 10:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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"Props to NZL for going out and learning how to go fast in ALL conditions."


Um, note to Ding, swimming is not "...fast in ALL conditions."

If they had NOT flipped it and had actually gone sailing instead of swiming, then yes, but swimming is slow and they learned -nothing- of going fast in 29 knots...only how NOT to go fast in 29knots.


Blade F16
#777
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231352
04/20/11 10:37 AM
04/20/11 10:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Do they have any C class racers on board who can help them with the wing adjustments? I'm sure they know how to drive so I'm thinking the wing trim has got them a little confused, unless something broke or got jammed up that caused them to flip it. And if it's blowing 29 at the surface, I'm sure it was over 40 up at the wing tip. Can't wait to see how the bigger cats do in 33 (with over 50 at the top of the wing!)


Blade F16
#777
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231353
04/20/11 11:32 AM
04/20/11 11:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Tim are you for real or are you just f'in with me?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231354
04/20/11 11:35 AM
04/20/11 11:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267
Ocean Springs, MS
Capt_Cardiac Offline
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Ocean Springs, MS
Capsizing is all a part of the game! Its one of the things that set us apart from the 1/2 boats. you have to admit walking that thin line of brave to stupid is exciting. Even more so when you are on a 45 foot cat. sign me up! I pitch poled my 18HT 2 weeks ago reaching with the kite at 19.3 kts. (Speed puck confirmed after the fact) That was fun! Flew around the boat just forward of the leeward bow. No one got hurt and nothing broke. WIN/WIN
I can hardly wait for the AC!!


Capt Cardiac
Ocean Springs Yacht Club
Sailor
Nacra20 - Flight of Ideas #5
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #231355
04/20/11 12:04 PM
04/20/11 12:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
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42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Originally Posted by Capt_Cardiac
Capsizing is all a part of the game! Its one of the things that set us apart from the 1/2 boats. you have to admit walking that thin line of brave to stupid is exciting. Even more so when you are on a 45 foot cat. sign me up! I pitch poled my 18HT 2 weeks ago reaching with the kite at 19.3 kts. (Speed puck confirmed after the fact) That was fun! Flew around the boat just forward of the leeward bow. No one got hurt and nothing broke. WIN/WIN
I can hardly wait for the AC!!


Capt'n, your story, and I'd stick to it, was that you were just checking out the jib and bridle wire while underway!


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: David Ingram] #231358
04/20/11 12:37 PM
04/20/11 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Tim are you for real or are you just f'in with me?



Well Dave, here's the thing. These guys are profesionals, and they are going out to "Practice" in high wind, on a big, expensive, cat. I don't know what their objective was for the day, maybe it was; "Let's see what it takes to flip this thing!"

In that case, good job. Maybe they were trying to get some "practice" for their rescue team and shore team too.

These are not beach cats, you can't just right it and contiue on. These things are very expnsive and it takes a lot of time and money to repair them. Maybe they have a big budget and lots of time, I don't know.

It seems stupid to me to waste the time and money on reparis, instead of working up slowly to the max winds. Afterall, they were not racing, they were out to learn the boat, right? I'd say they learned what not to do...so maybe it was time and money well spent.

Like I said earlier, "We won't do that again!"


Blade F16
#777
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231359
04/20/11 12:44 PM
04/20/11 12:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
O
orphan Offline
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orphan  Offline
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O

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
Expensive is a very relative term.
And they said they would be back on the water the next day.

Last edited by orphan; 04/20/11 12:45 PM.
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: orphan] #231366
04/20/11 01:53 PM
04/20/11 01:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Tim I get the impression you feel these guys acted irresponsibly, in my opinion that could not be further from the truth. The fact of the matter is that they must know how to sail these boats on the ragged edge even at the upper wind limit. What would be irresponsible is to have never sailed the boat at the upper wind limit during practice only to be forced to sail in those conditions at the championship totally unprepared.

I have no doubt that during the post day debrief they saw exactly what they did wrong and figured exactly what they have to to fix it. I think you really underestimate the talent, discipline and dedication these guys have.

If you're a player in the AC game you better have the scratch to play otherwise you're just wasting your time.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: Timbo] #231375
04/20/11 07:19 PM
04/20/11 07:19 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



Originally Posted by Timbo
Do they have any C class racers on board who can help them with the wing adjustments? I'm sure they know how to drive so I'm thinking the wing trim has got them a little confused, unless something broke or got jammed up that caused them to flip it. And if it's blowing 29 at the surface, I'm sure it was over 40 up at the wing tip. Can't wait to see how the bigger cats do in 33 (with over 50 at the top of the wing!)


Glenn Ashby ETNZ Main trimmer sailed the last LAC and Magnus Clarke, winning crew and co-designer of the last two LAC champions is on the ETNZ design team and has been seen out on the boat a few times. So yes there is C class experiance on board.

Re: TNZ flipped AC-45 [Re: ] #231377
04/20/11 08:36 PM
04/20/11 08:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 55
P
PeteCullum Offline
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In NZ 29 knts is considered a pretty tame breeze. It's amazing to see how many boats head out to pleasure-sail, let alone race, in winds that scare the bejesus out of average sailors in many counrties. I'm pretty sure the question of not going out never even came up.

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