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Re: day dreaming [Re: sail7seas] #232951
05/30/11 05:58 AM
05/30/11 05:58 AM
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pgp Offline OP
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Originally Posted by sail7seas
The tips look great, but to say the F16 can not do a LD race...

I have sailed my F16 in the Steeplechase Regatta twice, about 100mi, 50mi each day. (around Key Largo)

I sailed my F16 in the Hogs Breath Regatta once 100 miles (Islamorada to Key West)

I sailed my F16 in the Miami to Key Largo and back this year 80 miles. and beat the F18s (finished 3rd in h-class)

How many F16's did the 'Around the Island' race last year 100mi?

I repeat
(second time) Provisions / camping gear would be put on the Cruising Fleet.
and their are alot of monouhulls out of Miami that could do this. Perhaps after the Miami to Key West Race.


I didn't say "cannot" I said "not suitable".

I was thinking about you when I made that post and I think we actually agree. If you load the boat down with the gear for two for several days, you'd be in the cruising fleet.

Robi did Miami to Key Largo at least once, and there is Hagar's which always has a number of F16s.

Still, I wouldn't load the boat with gear to last two guys, unsupported, for several days.

Last edited by pgp; 05/30/11 06:01 AM.

Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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Re: day dreaming [Re: pgp] #232955
05/30/11 06:37 AM
05/30/11 06:37 AM
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pgp Offline OP
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But, since we're just day dreaming, how would you get a small fleet of F16s out to Dry Tortuga?

* stay together as a fleet, well within visual distance
* have each boat carry just their own provisions or try to split the load somehow?
* sail to the Marquesas, overnight and try for a daytime approach

I'm pretty sure H16s have made the trip in the past.


Last edited by pgp; 05/30/11 06:37 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: day dreaming [Re: pgp] #232957
05/30/11 08:18 AM
05/30/11 08:18 AM
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Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
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What I mean by cruising/support fleet are boats around 35 to 50+ feet.

GPS has an 'off course' feature, say set that to 1 mile each side of the rumb line.
I have used a Signal mirror when I lost both rudders on my H16 halfway to Culebra. This race from the east side of PR (Fajardo) to Culebra about 20 miles away.
The support boats brought food, clothing, family, and spectators. I took 5 to 8 hours in long swell around 4' to 10' high.

I have averaged around 8kn on the F16 in these races, so 70miles is around 10 hours.

Marquesaa Keys are 30mi away is an option, puts all the more importance of the support fleet, as no camping allowed. (sleep on support boats)

and Boca Grande Key, Florida (sleep on support fleet)
http://www.bootkeyharbor.com/FWSKeysRefuges.htm

FL keys Sea state is mild compared to NC, if you stay near shore (1 mi). Crew weight is 350lb

The Miami to Key Largo race fleet is huge 100-200 boats,
Not easy but I think one could drum up a support fleet.


Re: day dreaming [Re: sail7seas] #232958
05/30/11 08:31 AM
05/30/11 08:31 AM
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pgp Offline OP
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There would have to be a lot of support for me to try it.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: day dreaming [Re: pgp] #232960
05/30/11 08:46 AM
05/30/11 08:46 AM
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Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp
There would have to be a lot of support for me to try it.


Regardless of the boat, I wouldn't try something like the Cuban run, or sailing to the Bahamas without a big chase boat. Preferably power, just because a big blue water cruiser would have trouble staying in sight.


I'm boatless.
Re: day dreaming [Re: Karl_Brogger] #232961
05/30/11 08:53 AM
05/30/11 08:53 AM
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pgp Offline OP
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I wouldn't do either of those, both are reputed to be subject to extremely rough sea state.

I'm only serious about bumping along the coast, where I can duck into sheltered water if the weather turns nasty.

I think a fleet of beach cats could do a coast wise cruise here in SWFL.

Last edited by pgp; 05/30/11 08:54 AM.

Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: day dreaming [Re: Karl_Brogger] #232971
05/30/11 11:05 AM
05/30/11 11:05 AM
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Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by pgp
There would have to be a lot of support for me to try it.


Regardless of the boat, I wouldn't try something like the Cuban run, or sailing to the Bahamas without a big chase boat. Preferably power, just because a big blue water cruiser would have trouble staying in sight.


Just wanted to add, because I'm a big ol' pussy. If you think you've got the skills, cajones, luck, and equipment to pull it off, have at it.

I think running down the coast wouldn't be too bad, se you said Pete you can always scramble for land.


I'm boatless.
Re: day dreaming [Re: Karl_Brogger] #232972
05/30/11 11:11 AM
05/30/11 11:11 AM
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pgp Offline OP
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I don't think it makes much sense to take a small boat waaaaay of shore without a lot of support.

Of course it depends a lot on the boat.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=214607#Post214607

Last edited by pgp; 05/30/11 11:15 AM.

Pete Pollard
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'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: day dreaming [Re: pgp] #232987
05/30/11 07:28 PM
05/30/11 07:28 PM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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I've been 10 miles offshore in the N20, it was light air and the sea state was mild. I would be concerned about doing a Cuba run without adequate preparation and preferably a few chase boats. Would I still do it without chase boats? Probably because I'm crazy and I've also had some major gear failure offshore before that we've managed to work around in areas where there is no beach support.

As far as an F16 mast not being capable of sustained reaching loads, this is the first I've heard and its concerning. Karl, is your plan to switch to an F18 section cut down to the appropriate height? Why would the carbon not be better? Carbon is usually stiffer and capable of sustaining higher loads for the same weight as aluminum. Would Falcon would build a tougher Carbon mast for you if you asked?


Scorpion F18
Re: day dreaming [Re: samc99us] #232990
05/30/11 07:53 PM
05/30/11 07:53 PM
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Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us
As far as an F16 mast not being capable of sustained reaching loads, this is the first I've heard and its concerning. Karl, is your plan to switch to an F18 section cut down to the appropriate height? Why would the carbon not be better? Carbon is usually stiffer and capable of sustaining higher loads for the same weight as aluminum. Would Falcon would build a tougher Carbon mast for you if you asked?


I'm planning on using an AHPC F18 mast cut down. Really hoping to score one with a damaged end due to shipping.

I could have someone build a carbon mast, but I feel a lot better about throwing away a $1500 mast extrusion, rather than a built up $4k carbon mast. Reason being I'm only going to use it for the one race. Unless I fall in love with distance racing it will be either sold at deep discount, or recycled. Really all I need is the extrusion, I'll rob everything I can off of the Viper mast. I'm also hoping that I can get the mast tuned in with out having to re-cut a main sail.


I'm boatless.
Re: day dreaming [Re: Karl_Brogger] #233023
05/31/11 09:11 AM
05/31/11 09:11 AM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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So you increase the strength of the mast...is everything else up to the challenge?...the standing rigging? the chain plates?, the bridle? Like any chain...it's only as strong as it's weakest link.

Re: day dreaming [Re: Seeker] #233036
05/31/11 12:44 PM
05/31/11 12:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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I'm not going to up the size of anything else. I may change out the diamond wires if I have to go to some ridiculous number on the Loos gauge. All the hardware and wires are way oversize to begin with. I do hear what your saying though. I guess the best way to put it, is I know the mast will fail if we're pushing it hard. The rest would be shocking if there was a failure as its all the same stuff as off the F18, with exception of the wire rigging. F18 has a ridiculous wire size written in the rules, but what is there is more than adequate for the loads. So if anything breaks, it will more than likely be a failure, vs a overstressing scenario.


I'm boatless.
Re: day dreaming [Re: Karl_Brogger] #233037
05/31/11 12:54 PM
05/31/11 12:54 PM
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Ft. Pierce, Fl. USA
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Didn't want to make any assumptions...from what I understand AHPC used the F18 beams for the Viper so it wouldn't surprise me if they used other F18 parts which would be considered "oversize as well. That extra weight has to come from somewhere....if so...that's good for your purposes.

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