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Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! #236936
08/30/11 06:14 AM
08/30/11 06:14 AM
Joined: May 2011
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CleanLivin Offline OP
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CleanLivin  Offline OP
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I've spent weeks examining the cats that are available in todays market. After studying A-Cats, F16's, H17, etc I've decided that I need a true "beach cat" that can be solo sailed. Though the carbon rockets with all the latest are seductive, they will not hold up to my type of sailing; off/on the beach launchs/landings and rough seas. I'm not a racer, unless you try to pass me.

Would like to hear from owners/sailors that have sailed both the H16SE and the Nacra 500/5.0 contrasting for me what you liked and disliked about each.

I've owned Hobies in the 60's and 70's, 14,16 and 18 but never sailed on a Nacra.

This will be a true "beach cat". Will be stored on the beach under custom cover with mast up as we do not have a ramp/launch site here in Naples, FL. Will be sailed solo 98% of the time (I'm 6'4" and 205#'s) and must be able to be solo righted (I know I can with the 16 as I used to in the past).

Thanks,
Jack

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: CleanLivin] #236939
08/30/11 07:02 AM
08/30/11 07:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline
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Andinista  Offline
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Santiago, Chile
Is there another good reason to keep sailing on bananas, besides racing with other bananas?

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: Andinista] #236942
08/30/11 08:00 AM
08/30/11 08:00 AM
Joined: May 2011
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CleanLivin Offline OP
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CleanLivin  Offline OP
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Well, that was NOT the type of advise I was hoping for.

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: CleanLivin] #236947
08/30/11 10:16 AM
08/30/11 10:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
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JJ_ Offline
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Went through the same search process and got to about the same conclusions that you have gotten to. Noticed you asking about the Isotope earlier, which I looked at also.

For a true beach cat that can take the day-in, day-out use, there are not too many the completely fit the description. Typically for solo beachcat, you want toughness, about 16' in length because of weight to move, nimbleness and good simple controls (like no daggerboard or easy-to-use daggerboard/centerboard, good halyard rig for raising sail, good downhaul, etc., etc.), and good factory support.

So. A-cats have great sail plan and simple setup and they're light but they are fragile. F16 has great design and nice setup (especially the Falcon) but they are a performance boat not for ramming onto the beach. Isotope has by far the best control setup of a lot of the boats I saw, but you got the story on it. Hobie Wave or Getaway are true beach boats. Not high priced, extremely easy to rig, tough, safe, and have good factory support. Wave is smallish and the Getaway is big. The Nacra 500 is rare, as are their dealers.

The H16 is extremely tough (a little too heavy for me). The banana hulls that are said to pitch can be controlled if you know what you are doing...

Ended up concluding that I was looking for a boat that isn't made -- nimble, rotomolded 16' with a hull shape like the F16 with skegs or centerboards, not daggerboards, that has traveller, downhaul, and all the basics of the H16 or Isotope. The perfect hybrid of toughness, nimbleness and speed, good controls, and hopefully phenomenal sales and good factory support for that reason. The jet ski of beachcats! Boo-yah.

Anyway, you're about right. For your situation, the H16 and Nacra 500 are 16' boats with skegs, simple to rig, tough on beach, and fast enough. They fit your weight, wind conditions, and rigging/storage. Best of both worlds is to get a Wave for kicking around and a performance boat for you that you keep everyone else off of... smile

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: JJ_] #236948
08/30/11 10:19 AM
08/30/11 10:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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"Ended up concluding that I was looking for a boat that isn't made"

I know the feeling. I love my F16 and wouldn't even consider another boat if I was younger than 40.

I have an idea if anyone 60ish is interested in pursuing it.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: pgp] #236949
08/30/11 10:28 AM
08/30/11 10:28 AM
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CleanLivin Offline OP
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"Ended up concluding that I was looking for a boat that isn't made"

Amen to that!
I've concluded that for us "Ole Salts" the operative word is compromise!

Thus I'm down to the H16SE or the Nacra 500.
Agree that there are far more H16's on the planet and support is excellent compared to the Nacra BUT I'm interested in hearing from someone that has sailed both and can contrast for me if there are any significant advantages to the Nacra 500 over the Hobie that overcome the support and extensive network of H16's.

I must admit that the Nacra 500, in reading reviews of it, really appeals to me. Back when I was sailing cats the 5.2 Nacra's couldn't be caught by my H16! The 500 seems to be a nicely updated cat over the 5.2 - just not sure if the 500 is as "beach worthy" and capable of taking the pounding the H16 can take.

Thus, experience of others with first hand knowledge is welcome.

Jack

Last edited by CleanLivin; 08/30/11 10:56 AM.
Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: CleanLivin] #236953
08/30/11 12:05 PM
08/30/11 12:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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There are some other questions you have to answer.

Will your sailing be in Naples, FL? If that is like most of west Florida, you'll be in shallow water. If you want the true beach cat life you will be hauling out on any good looking sandy islet you see. This pretty much wipes out daggerboard boats except maybe a Hobie 18 if you just HAD to have boards. Now you're limited to boardless or swing boards (centerboards). If you want to race in little circles (buoys) and you have deeper water you can go F16 but for a beach rat, no way. You'll gut it and cry out those 96 tears. You have to decide who you are and what kind of sailing life you want to lead. The vocal people on this board seem to be mostly racers, the other 95% of us rarely race and have just as much fun. Who are you?

What's your budget and what's your take on older boats? Most true beach cats will be 10-30 years old. If you can live with that and you're looking for a shallow water boat, west Florida is like a smorgasbord of choices. If you must have new (why?) I guess the H16 and N500 are about all that's left in the US market for new boats. Maybe the Getaway but it's heavy and slow. How about an older Prindle 16 or 18? Killer beach boats, on par with H16 speeds (or better). How about a GCat, either 5.7 or 5.0? Very quick in skilled hands and has a forward tramp for very cool crowd control. Tough as nails, massive hull flyer, and Hans is in your neighborhood. On the other hand, it's hard to beat a SuperCat 17 for speed and strength in the true beach cat category. An SC17 would be easy to find, affordable, and fast in skilled hands (slow if you're a hack). Any Mystere would be good as the 5.5 and 6.0 have swing boards and are much faster that a H16. There's a large Mystere fleet in Dunedin, perhaps the boat of choice in that vibrant, 365-day, shallow water fleet. I had a boardless Mystere 5.0XL that I dearly loved. I only parted with it to get a Mystere 5.5 which turned out to be a bit too heavy of a beach horse for my liking. I tried a Dart 18 (popular and effective skeg boat) but it was not for me, just wrong. Same with a Prindle 18-2 (swing boards). Had one and sold it, just not for me. I went BACK to a 16 foot boat in a Nacra 5.0. It's tough as nails, the rudders are still stupid (they all are), it comes with all the strings and diamond wires you might want, the boat and mast are light, and it's easy to right solo (for me at 185 lbs, 58 years old). It takes a spinnaker quite well and you can get parts. Used F16 sails fit it nearly perfectly if you want to upgrade to a squaretop, blade jib, and spin. The new N500 has all that but will cost a lot of money and you will cry when some oyster bed rips it's guts open. With an older boat you'll just reglass and move on.

Maybe it depends on how old you are. When you're young many people feel that their car defines them. Some might think that it's the same with a boat, thinking that with a new boat you'll look cool or get you laid more. If so, then spend the dough and go new. If you're older and know that it's a charming smile that get's you laid, then save a lot of money and buy a 10 year old beachcat, sail it hard and have big fun (and a charming smile). You'd have trouble spending more than 4 grand on any of the boats I mentioned. I've never spent half that. It's not about what you spend, it's about what you keep for parts and beer.

The BIGGEST consideration is to sail what the other folks near you sail. If you have a fleet of Sunfish near you, owning a Hobie 20 would leave you out of the fun, an orphan. Much faster, but an orphan. If everyone races buoys and F16s, a Getaway would leave you out yet again. Find your locale, find who they are and what they sail, and buy a boat in the upper 40% of the speed rating of the group. You'll keep up, you can drink their beer, and guaranteed, you'll have fun.

I could be wrong. I often am.




Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: David Parker] #236955
08/30/11 12:28 PM
08/30/11 12:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline
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TheManShed  Offline
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Palm Beach County
Can't beat a G-Cat for a beach boat!


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: CleanLivin] #236961
08/30/11 01:11 PM
08/30/11 01:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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Toronto, Ontario

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: CleanLivin] #236962
08/30/11 01:16 PM
08/30/11 01:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
Hi Jack,
The 500 has a lot of advantages such as:
- can right it single handed
- simpler than a H16 so less things to go wrong.
- lighter than a H16 at 300lbs.
- more stable than a H16 because of better a hull design.

They are plenty tough enough to do any type of sailing you want to do. Most modern boats are built a lot better and stronger than the older designs.

There are Nacra dealers all over North America and some dealers have 500s in stock if you want to check one out. If you are in Ontario Canada I can get you a demo ride.
Dave
www.nacra.ca

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: pitchpoledave] #236966
08/30/11 01:39 PM
08/30/11 01:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Hamburg
None of the two you mentioned. If you really want to beach you should go for a rotomolded (thermoplast) cat. Apart from the Hobies, there are some nicer looking boats:
Topaz 16
Topaz 14
Dart 16
I have sailed only a Dart 16 once, in so light winds that I can't really judge if those boats are fun or not.

Convince yourself to heave to before you beach and select a boat which offers fun.
BTW we store our boats (Tornado, Wildcat, 2 A-cats and my Javelin 16) on the beach, mast up the hole season since years without any problem. And believe me: northern Germany is actually not notorious for its lovely summer.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: pitchpoledave] #236969
08/30/11 02:49 PM
08/30/11 02:49 PM
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CleanLivin Offline OP
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CleanLivin  Offline OP
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Dave,

Would be a bit of a trip from Naples, FL for that demo ride BUT I sure appreciate the offer. In January, give some thought to hauling that cat of yours through the snow down to Naples to sail with us!

I think your comments are valid. I definitely prefer the more modern design of the Nacra 500 hull verse the H16SE. Feel there should be fewer pitch pole experiences, and turning 65 in September, I'd like to minimize those experiences in my life.

I talked with your dealer in CA - pleasant chap - assured me that most parts are readily available - would only have to wait for hulls if they needed to be replaced. Made sense, and I can live with that.

And being that the N500 is reportedly a much easier boat to right when tipped, that's a plus since almost all my sailing will be solo into the Gulf of Mexico. Your dealer mentioned that the mast is quite a bit lighter and the cat is also lighter than H16.

Regards,
Jack

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: CleanLivin] #236971
08/30/11 04:03 PM
08/30/11 04:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
Go with a daggarless hull, Jack. You will find yourself scraping over one or two sandbars before you beach on most of the shoreline in these parts.

If you're leaving it on the beach, expect it to become a seating/smoking (or worse) area for anyone using that beach access.


And I might just be tempted to take it out myself, so don't leave the sails/rudders anywhere nearby smile


Jay

Re: Hobie 16SE or Nacra 500 - decisions, decisions, decisions! [Re: CleanLivin] #236995
08/31/11 08:03 AM
08/31/11 08:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Andinista Offline
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Andinista  Offline
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Posts: 351
Santiago, Chile
Originally Posted by CleanLivin

I definitely prefer the more modern design of the Nacra 500 hull verse the H16SE. Feel there should be fewer pitch pole experiences, and turning 65 in September, I'd like to minimize those experiences in my life.


Like I said, if you won't be racing, there's no reason to choose the bananas..
wink


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