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Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: Wouter] #238336
09/26/11 01:45 PM
09/26/11 01:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
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carlbohannon  Offline
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Houston
I forsee a proposal that includes an outdated F18 with a carbon mast, reduced sails and a agreement to supply charter boats for the Games

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Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: carlbohannon] #238347
09/26/11 11:11 PM
09/26/11 11:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,197
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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Tornado  Offline
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Vancouver, BC
Be sure to read the full text on the linked document. It is fairly clear the specs are an ideal and that boats will be rated on how close they meet them.
No boats are excluded from applying to the trials by anything in the specs. And since there is no one boat anyone can think of that meets all the listed specs, (does an H16 support both crew with both hulls fully flooded? [Heck, it barely does before flooding ;)] ) there are no shoe-in's for getting into the trials.


Last edited by Tornado; 09/26/11 11:15 PM.

Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: brucat] #238354
09/27/11 05:13 AM
09/27/11 05:13 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,382
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Kingston SE South Australia
Originally Posted by brucat
Wow. Just wow. I'm all for freedom of speech and everything, but wow...

Less than a fraction of ONE PERCENT of all of us on this forum have a remote chance (or let's face it, real interest) in actually sailing in an Oly trial, let alone qualifying for the games; no matter what cat design is specified or ultimately selected (on anything from H16 to Tornado to something new with a wing).

So, our interest can only be as spectators. Why are we spending so much energy spouting off about all the things that are wrong with the proposal, rather than helping get behind a boat that will meet the requirements and get selected?

Better than that, start helping some sailors train (or at least raise money) so that when the time comes, they can qualify and ultimately win the event?

After all, it's supposed to be about the sailors, not the boats, right?

And don't wind up about mixed crews anymore. It's not like you were on a two-man crew waiting in the wings to get called to Rio. God forbid you get to watch a girl sail on a catamaran...

Mike

I definately look at the Olympics from the spectator side and that is important from a promotion of cat sailing perspective. How fast will the cats be going in 6 knots of wind on a 16ft cat with 140kg crew? The cats have to be exciting the whole Olympics not just the lucky windy day. Any decent skipper no matter what weight will keep a Tornado humming in light or heavy wind, they can wild thing in light and still go fast, don't tell me a Viper of Hobie 16 will still power on in the light. If its too windy for a light crew on the T with a full rig they can put a smaller sail on if they need to. As for limiting the weight to 140kg that puts this 15yo, 75kg girl, crewing on the Taipan 5.7 out of dreaming about the Olympics

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Jeff Southall
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Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: Tornado] #238358
09/27/11 07:10 AM
09/27/11 07:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah

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Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by Tornado
does an H16 support both crew with both hulls fully flooded?

As a matter of fact, it does. Unlike most "modern" boats, the H16 has a foam flotation block in the hulls that will prevent it from sinking, even if both hulls are compromised.

Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: JeffS] #238368
09/27/11 11:33 AM
09/27/11 11:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 930
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Posts: 930
Solomon's Island, MD
Originally Posted by JeffS
Originally Posted by brucat
Wow. Just wow. I'm all for freedom of speech and everything, but wow...

Less than a fraction of ONE PERCENT of all of us on this forum have a remote chance (or let's face it, real interest) in actually sailing in an Oly trial, let alone qualifying for the games; no matter what cat design is specified or ultimately selected (on anything from H16 to Tornado to something new with a wing).

So, our interest can only be as spectators. Why are we spending so much energy spouting off about all the things that are wrong with the proposal, rather than helping get behind a boat that will meet the requirements and get selected?

Better than that, start helping some sailors train (or at least raise money) so that when the time comes, they can qualify and ultimately win the event?

After all, it's supposed to be about the sailors, not the boats, right?

And don't wind up about mixed crews anymore. It's not like you were on a two-man crew waiting in the wings to get called to Rio. God forbid you get to watch a girl sail on a catamaran...

Mike

I definately look at the Olympics from the spectator side and that is important from a promotion of cat sailing perspective. How fast will the cats be going in 6 knots of wind on a 16ft cat with 140kg crew? The cats have to be exciting the whole Olympics not just the lucky windy day. Any decent skipper no matter what weight will keep a Tornado humming in light or heavy wind, they can wild thing in light and still go fast, don't tell me a Viper of Hobie 16 will still power on in the light. If its too windy for a light crew on the T with a full rig they can put a smaller sail on if they need to. As for limiting the weight to 140kg that puts this 15yo, 75kg girl, crewing on the Taipan 5.7 out of dreaming about the Olympics


She'll drop 5kg in Olympic prep. I don't think the 140kg weight range is really that limiting (median for a mixed Olympic crew globally is 138kg per SA/google)

I do think keeping a hull airborne for the spectators is going to be needed no matter what conditions. Put a hull flying event in and that will keep the media appeal up.


Scorpion F18
Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: samc99us] #238370
09/27/11 11:53 AM
09/27/11 11:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,969
Beat me to it, Matt. I've seen H16s float with a ridiculous about of damage, as well as (several) H17s and H18s with bows ripped completely off.

EDIT: I don't recall ever seeing a boat with both hulls ripped open, it's definitely possible (a boat "giving" the T-bone, as opposed to "receiving" the T-bone, might get both bows comprimised)...

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 09/27/11 12:00 PM.
Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: carlbohannon] #238386
09/27/11 09:28 PM
09/27/11 09:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by carlbohannon
I forsee a proposal that includes an outdated F18 with a carbon mast, reduced sails and a agreement to supply charter boats for the Games


Sad, but true.

Since dreaming is free and given the ISAF specs, a new 15 ft cat with a two part wing would be my personal favorite.

Why small? Because a small wing is a lot less trouble to build, handle and store, the boat would be cheaper, novices would be able to sail it and the fun is guaranteed for kids/teens, so it would have the potential to atract new sailors at their youth.

A modified Tornado or F18 will be too big/heavy for the weight range and are unlikely to atract young sailors.

The F16 is close to ideal, but with the addition of a wing, 16 ft may be too big for the specified weight range.


Luiz
Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: Luiz] #238393
09/28/11 10:27 AM
09/28/11 10:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
can a wing be designed to ship in several pieces meeting that 2-part mast spec?

So, maybe an F-18 style with wing, self-tack jib and spin? Could it be designed to convert a standard F-18 platform with a wing sail to promote interchangability (olympic / fleet)


Jay

Re: Olympic Multihull Specification [Re: waterbug_wpb] #238472
09/30/11 09:36 PM
09/30/11 09:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
can a wing be designed to ship in several pieces meeting that 2-part mast spec?


Yes.
Ben Hall's A Class wing split into two parts, lower and upper.

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
So, maybe an F-18 style with wing, self-tack jib and spin? Could it be designed to convert a standard F-18 platform with a wing sail to promote interchangability (olympic / fleet)


Easy. Just build an F18 as light as possible and then add 100 lb ballast to race in the F18 class.


Luiz
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