"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Based on the boats in the garage, it would just take a new set of shrouds, Forestay, and trap wires. Everything else could be cobbled together from the existing boats.
My guess it would be way overpowered upwind and scary fast downwind...
Based on the boats in the garage, it would just take a new set of shrouds, Forestay, and trap wires. Everything else could be cobbled together from the existing boats.
My guess it would be way overpowered upwind and scary downwind...
Tad, Please allow me to ask this. Being new to the game, I can understand your desire for purist in the N20 pursuit, and make it a level playing field. I sailed this weekend with a bunch of top notch sailors and they smoked me at every race. They could beat me with a 14 Hobie, but I still had a good time. I know in time I'll get better. They'll beat me time after time, but I'll keep trying. If we allow a set or given design of sail by different lofts to be used, what is wrong with making the boats more competitive. I mean, who will want to buy a N20 in a couple of years when it's so slow a F16 can out run it. I'm just asking. Thanks Forrest N20
Tad, Please allow me to ask this. Being new to the game, I can understand your desire for purist in the N20 pursuit, and make it a level playing field. I sailed this weekend with a bunch of top notch sailors and they smoked me at every race. They could beat me with a 14 Hobie, but I still had a good time. I know in time I'll get better. They'll beat me time after time, but I'll keep trying. If we allow a set or given design of sail by different lofts to be used, what is wrong with making the boats more competitive. I mean, who will want to buy a N20 in a couple of years when it's so slow a F16 can out run it. I'm just asking. Thanks Forrest N20
I don't know where to start with this one.
"new to the game"? If you're referring to me, I've been a N20 owner since 2007, and sailor since 2005. I don't think that qualifies as "new to the game".
Anyone who looks at my record can tell that I'm not interested in winning. I'm not even interested in finishing top half of the fleet. I do want to compete against who I feel are sailors on equal level as me within the fleet.
What I don't want is to sail an open or formula class because some owners just up and decided that it was ok to change the rules. Thats not what I signed up for when I bought the boat, and its not whats going to cause more people to join the class. Go look at the Nacra 6.0 and what they did. Same song, different singer.
As for why would people buy boats that get beat by F16s... I'd imagine that a ton of H16 sailors would take umbrage with that statement. I didn't buy my boat because it was the fastest boat amongst all the choices available. I bought it because it was what I felt was the best boat to do the race that I loved at the time (and the price was pretty damn good).
So the whole goal of changing the rules so people all of a sudden start buying N20's isn't going to work. How is a boat that is split between two classes going to draw in more sailors?
"Gee, I can sail in a 2 boat one design fleet or a 3 boat open sails fleet. This sounds ... awesome."
*rolls eyes*
Whatever - I think its fairly clear what I think on the matter. Once again, this isn't helping me get off the hump and put the boat in the water. In fact, it makes me rather sick to look at my boat and think of this whole situation.
Re: New Open 20 rule set
[Re: tback]
#238630 10/04/1103:41 PM10/04/1103:41 PM
Alright that is enough. Stop saying the rule change is keeping you off the water. That's not what is keeping you off the water and you know it. In fact you got well pissed off at me about 16 months ago becuase Thart and I were busting your balls about not sailing which predates this rule change by almost a year. The fact that your boat stays in the driveway has absolutely NOTHING to do with the O20 concept. You chose not to sail for reasons that are uniquely your own my friend.
Unless you're willing to lead the charge back into the OD camp, let these people be. The dark cloud that is you is bringing me down, damn... I thought Mark was negative.
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
It's WAY (I mean like way way WAY) under the weight in this new O/F20 rule. Also, we'd have to put a jib on it. Still not sure why that is a requirement. If they left it open with only a 50m^2 limit, why not make it open to sloop or uni as well?
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
My guess it would be way overpowered upwind and scary fast downwind...
Mike, the CFR is a lot lighter than the N20c, with a taller mast and 8.5' beam. It can be controlled Put those beams on, it would be interesting to see how it does. I think the biggest problem would be that it's over the 50m^2 limit.
Alright that is enough. Stop saying the rule change is keeping you off the water. That's not what is keeping you off the water and you know it. In fact you got well pissed off at me about 16 months ago becuase Thart and I were busting your balls about not sailing which predates this rule change by almost a year. The fact that your boat stays in the driveway has absolutely NOTHING to do with the O20 concept. You chose not to sail for reasons that are uniquely your own my friend.
Unless you're willing to lead the charge back into the OD camp, let these people be. The dark cloud that is you is bringing me down, damn... I thought Mark was negative.
You're right Ding, but in Tad's defense, at least he doesn't wear spandex in the boat park. Tad, Maybe the feeling you have when you look at your boat is just that you've realized it may be time for a different boat. I can relate to that.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
Alright that is enough. Stop saying the rule change is keeping you off the water. That's not what is keeping you off the water and you know it. In fact you got well pissed off at me about 16 months ago becuase Thart and I were busting your balls about not sailing which predates this rule change by almost a year. The fact that your boat stays in the driveway has absolutely NOTHING to do with the O20 concept. You chose not to sail for reasons that are uniquely your own my friend.
Unless you're willing to lead the charge back into the OD camp, let these people be. The dark cloud that is you is bringing me down, damn... I thought Mark was negative.
Love you too sunshine! I have been enjoying the show... Carry on! (There is nothing that PHRF/Portsmouth or SCHRS doesn't solve here!)
Tad, Forgive me, I certainly wasn't speaking of you " as new to the game." I was speaking strickly of myself. As I am new, and simply asking for your reasoning and reason for your position in this matter. I concur with you that I didn't purchase mine to be constantly up grading, but we can't stay stagnant as to advancements. Forrest N20
Forrest I-20 USA 645
" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: New Open 20 rule set
[Re: Mlcreek]
#238642 10/04/1107:24 PM10/04/1107:24 PM
Group, Please allow me to ask these questions, forgive me in advance if this has been discussed or off base. Why not have a open 20 class and stock or modified stock class, or whatever you choose to call it? open would be the carbon and 10' beam boats or M20s modified 20's would be a stock boat with limited modifications made and allowed only every 3-5 years
This is my question, if a modification is evident in and for a stock 20, only allow it every 3-5 years depending on what the class decides. Allow the members of the class decide what modifications would be allowed in the class by vote. They would control what would be acceptable, and what wouldn't. You could have either one major change and or two minor changes. This is my thought...some of us 20 owners can't afford to buy new boats to keep up with changes as in the F18 class. Clearly they are making jumps leaps and bounds. Why not limit the changes into major changes, and minor changes. A major change would be sail and or mast change, A minor change would be changes of blocks, or sheets, castings. By keeping the amount and expense down, it allows slow and gradual changes within the fleet, without folks waking up and being suddenly outdated. I concur and agree with Tad, but also believe that we need to change but in a majority mutually agreed upon direction. Clearly manufactures aren't concerned about the fleet, as new 20' class boats are being produced. The class needs to dictate the rules and not the other way around. Thanks for the time to inquire. Forrest N20
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Put those beams on, it would be interesting to see how it does. I think the biggest problem would be that it's over the 50m^2 limit.
