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Downhaul under spinnaker
by CapriSun. 11/12/20 09:41 AM
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by Team_Cat_Fever. 11/02/20 09:45 PM
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Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Timbo] #238910
10/11/11 11:01 AM
10/11/11 11:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Timbo
What's the Official Nacra gelcoat color for The Flesh Rocket?

;^)


I'm not sure that appears in any catalog. It was chosen / mixed specifically to match the front door of a sponsor's house.


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Jake] #238913
10/11/11 12:54 PM
10/11/11 12:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
I just did a gelcoat job on ole Undecided (removed some old ugly rusted out footstrap bolts) and I used the stock West Marine gelcoat. It came out a bit more brown/yellow once it fully cured than the white of the rest of the boat.

So get the color matching kit for like $40 and do thorough testing before you actually lay down the final coats.

If all else fails, then contact Sher-fab and ask them if they have records of the white that performance cat/Nacra used.

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Jake] #238916
10/11/11 06:28 PM
10/11/11 06:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
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Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
Quote
I'm not sure that appears in any catalog. It was chosen / mixed specifically to match the front door of a sponsor's house.


Chuck told me that one sponsor wanted the boat to be the color of a "Georgia Peach", so he told Jack they wanted a Peach colored boat. Jack saw the color that was listed as peach and asked Chuck if he was sure he wanted that color. Without looking at it (over the phone) ...the rest is history.


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: NACRA I20 [Re: TeamChums] #238919
10/11/11 08:10 PM
10/11/11 08:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 67
Key Largo, Fl
chipshort Offline
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chipshort  Offline
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Posts: 67
Key Largo, Fl
Peach my butt, that boat was pink.

Last edited by chipshort; 10/11/11 08:25 PM.
Re: NACRA I20 [Re: chipshort] #238921
10/11/11 09:19 PM
10/11/11 09:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by chipshort
Peach my butt, that boat was pink.


"pink" or "disturbingly flesh colored" as JW dubbed it?


Jake Kohl
Re: NACRA I20 [Re: chipshort] #238928
10/12/11 08:30 AM
10/12/11 08:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,223
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,223
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by chipshort
Peach my butt, that boat was pink.


A very UN-ripe peach.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #238934
10/12/11 10:59 AM
10/12/11 10:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
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Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Something that nobody else has mentioned it easing the main downwind.

If you've got the spinnaker up, no brainer, tight main sheet.

If you're in survival mode (30 isn't survival mode) with the spinnaker down, easing the main all the way is detrimental. If you keep the traveler closer to center and sheeted tighter, you won't be presenting as much direct surface area to the wind and therefore will have less force trying to pitchpole the boat.

And "Peaches" as the boat was called when it was first unveiled (how many years ago?).... Yeah, we all called it something else that started with a P when we saw it. Really should have faded the gel coat to a darker color at the front wink

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Will_R] #238969
10/12/11 06:38 PM
10/12/11 06:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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T

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Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Guys the boat's name is Flesh Rocket.

Call it anything else and you'll hurt Bryan's feelings.

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Will_R] #238973
10/12/11 10:10 PM
10/12/11 10:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 713
WA, ID, MT
davefarmer Offline
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WA, ID, MT

If you're in survival mode (30 isn't survival mode) with the spinnaker down, easing the main all the way is detrimental. If you keep the traveler closer to center and sheeted tighter, you won't be presenting as much direct surface area to the wind and therefore will have less force trying to pitchpole the boat.

Yeah, that's my operating principle as well, although the harder it blows, the deeper you have to drive to stay depowered, and eventually you're very close to dead down wind, and a possible accidental jibe. Which is very hard to recover from quickly enough, if at all. At which point you're probably better off taking the main down, difficult as that is. Particularly if you have to round up to head into the wind.


Dave

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: davefarmer] #238982
10/13/11 05:25 AM
10/13/11 05:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 164
I
I20RI Offline
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I20RI  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 164
how you gonna get the main down with a halyard lock going ddw?

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: davefarmer] #238984
10/13/11 06:07 AM
10/13/11 06:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by davefarmer

If you're in survival mode (30 isn't survival mode) with the spinnaker down, easing the main all the way is detrimental. If you keep the traveler closer to center and sheeted tighter, you won't be presenting as much direct surface area to the wind and therefore will have less force trying to pitchpole the boat.

Yeah, that's my operating principle as well, although the harder it blows, the deeper you have to drive to stay depowered, and eventually you're very close to dead down wind, and a possible accidental jibe. Which is very hard to recover from quickly enough, if at all. At which point you're probably better off taking the main down, difficult as that is. Particularly if you have to round up to head into the wind.


Dave


I've spun out like that before too where the main caught air in a puff/shift and overpowered the rudders. The N20 pin head rudders don't have a whole lot of margin in that regard. If it surprise gybes on you when you have the sheet/traveler more centered, it will most definitely spin out and capsize.


Jake Kohl
Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Jake] #238986
10/13/11 07:19 AM
10/13/11 07:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Naples, FL
so, the consensus seems to be that you're going to flip anyway, so pick the way that causes the least amount of damage/injury. I would presume a flip would be less injurous than a pitch pole..?


Jay

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: I20RI] #238993
10/13/11 08:51 AM
10/13/11 08:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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Posts: 712
You're not going to do it DDW without a knife..

Go head to wind and drop the main.

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: evansdb78] #239000
10/13/11 09:25 AM
10/13/11 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
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Posts: 291
I finally watched the video last night. One of the things that caught my eye is that the mast was rotated out quite a bit. With 10:1 downhauls and squaretop mains pulling the rotator all the way in is the way to depower, which is the exact opposite thing you would do on say a Hobie 18 pinhead main.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: NACRA I20 [Re: JACKFLASH] #239003
10/13/11 09:41 AM
10/13/11 09:41 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I finally watched the video last night. One of the things that caught my eye is that the mast was rotated out quite a bit. With 10:1 downhauls and squaretop mains pulling the rotator all the way in is the way to depower, which is the exact opposite thing you would do on say a Hobie 18 pinhead main.


All the way or to the back beam bolts?

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: ] #239014
10/13/11 02:21 PM
10/13/11 02:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
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Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Originally Posted by MN3
All the way or to the back beam bolts?


Line that bad boy up as close to the boom as you can. Keeping the roatation close to the boom will also protect the mast by limiting the amount of swing and keeping the most rigid cross section lined up with the load. This will also, hopefully limit the whiping going on up there.

Also consider the downhaul: Hammering it opens the leech and exposes more sail area while DDW. IMO, ease it enough to keep the leech semi closed, however you want to keep it on enough to take power out and support the mast.

When it gets hairy and you have to go head-to, rememeber to ease the DH then as well.

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: Will_R] #239015
10/13/11 03:34 PM
10/13/11 03:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
Have you ever seen a plane fly backwards? or stalled?
Sailing stalled out (falling in an airplane) with managed projected area (twist or travel) is the key to reducing the excess of wind power you are experiencing. Every notice how slow it is when the crew oversheets the jib, he is depowering/STALLING the sails.
Have you ever seen a plane fly backwards? Sailing stalled out with managed projected area is the key to reducing the excess of wind power you are experiencing.

I addition to getting your weight back, pull your main traveller (& jib) near the center of the boat with minimal twist(sheet in tight), steering ALMOST Dead Down Wind. The closer the mainsail is to the centerline the smaller the projected sail area to the wind reducing wind force and pitchpoling. This sail configuration puts the sail in a STALL, like an airplane falling through the air NEGATING lift.

For steering DDW try using the following (3)three indicators,
that kind of 'check and balance' each other.
First, the bow wind indicator.
Second, pay attention to the feel on helm.
You can maintain a very slight weather to neutral helm with the sails stalled out.
If the helm goes a lee you WILL eventually jibe,
so push the helm away from you to get back to neutral helm.
If the weather helm helm increases pull the stick to get back/close to neutral helm.
Finally, with the jib strapped in (stalled) watch which side the jib FAVORS, as it oscillates
back and forth (how it behaves) out of the corner of your eye, and react accordingly.
This is useful when it is raining so hard you can not see the bridal fly.

Looking behind you, often helps, as you can sheet in before the puff (dark water)
hits you. Its fun watching the other boats go over next to you, as they let OUT their sails.

With the sails stalled the effective shape looks like a big fat wedge whose lee side isn't bending the wind near as much as you'd like, so the lift (component of the force at right angles to the apparent wind) is much less and the drag (component of the force parallel to the apparent wind) is excessive. The combination of the two is smaller and points aft, robbing the boat of the drive.

The above has kept me upright in registered 40kn wind in the "Round the Island" Florida race on a H20.

**************************************
So downwind try sheeting in the jib in the puffs to stall out.
To depower more travel in the main to reduce projected sail.
To depower more and stall out reduce twist(sheet in)
and enter the 'Stalled Out Zone'.
(CAUTION sailing stalled in winds under 20nt is SLOW)
**************************************

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: JACKFLASH] #239027
10/13/11 08:28 PM
10/13/11 08:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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bacho  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I finally watched the video last night. One of the things that caught my eye is that the mast was rotated out quite a bit. With 10:1 downhauls and squaretop mains pulling the rotator all the way in is the way to depower, which is the exact opposite thing you would do on say a Hobie 18 pinhead main.


Thanks, That clears up some of the confusion I had with the strategies of the rotator on my N20 vs my previous Hobie 18.

Re: NACRA I20 [Re: sail7seas] #239033
10/14/11 09:18 AM
10/14/11 09:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Todd_Sails  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Originally Posted by sail7seas
Have you ever seen a plane fly backwards? or stalled?
Sailing stalled out (falling in an airplane) with managed projected area (twist or travel) is the key to reducing the excess of wind power you are experiencing. Every notice how slow it is when the crew oversheets the jib, he is depowering/STALLING the sails.
Have you ever seen a plane fly backwards? Sailing stalled out with managed projected area is the key to reducing the excess of wind power you are experiencing.

I addition to getting your weight back, pull your main traveller (& jib) near the center of the boat with minimal twist(sheet in tight), steering ALMOST Dead Down Wind. The closer the mainsail is to the centerline the smaller the projected sail area to the wind reducing wind force and pitchpoling. This sail configuration puts the sail in a STALL, like an airplane falling through the air NEGATING lift.

For steering DDW try using the following (3)three indicators,
that kind of 'check and balance' each other.
First, the bow wind indicator.
Second, pay attention to the feel on helm.
You can maintain a very slight weather to neutral helm with the sails stalled out.
If the helm goes a lee you WILL eventually jibe,
so push the helm away from you to get back to neutral helm.
If the weather helm helm increases pull the stick to get back/close to neutral helm.
Finally, with the jib strapped in (stalled) watch which side the jib FAVORS, as it oscillates
back and forth (how it behaves) out of the corner of your eye, and react accordingly.
This is useful when it is raining so hard you can not see the bridal fly.

Looking behind you, often helps, as you can sheet in before the puff (dark water)
hits you. Its fun watching the other boats go over next to you, as they let OUT their sails.

With the sails stalled the effective shape looks like a big fat wedge whose lee side isn't bending the wind near as much as you'd like, so the lift (component of the force at right angles to the apparent wind) is much less and the drag (component of the force parallel to the apparent wind) is excessive. The combination of the two is smaller and points aft, robbing the boat of the drive.

The above has kept me upright in registered 40kn wind in the "Round the Island" Florida race on a H20.

**************************************
So downwind try sheeting in the jib in the puffs to stall out.
To depower more travel in the main to reduce projected sail.
To depower more and stall out reduce twist(sheet in)
and enter the 'Stalled Out Zone'.
(CAUTION sailing stalled in winds under 20nt is SLOW)
**************************************


The more nulear it gets, I totally agree with this post.
IMHO


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
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