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Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mary] #241257
12/14/11 07:39 AM
12/14/11 07:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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Posts: 5,525
Hi Mary: I was hoping to hear more about the H16 w/spinnaker. Did you get a chance to speak with them?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: pgp] #241264
12/14/11 08:36 AM
12/14/11 08:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
pgp, no, I didn't.

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: mbounds] #241265
12/14/11 08:43 AM
12/14/11 08:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by mbounds
And US Sailing is watching.


Okay, so!? This attititude that we are on some kind of US Sailing probabtion is at the very least annoying. May I remaind you Matt (US Sailing) that the mulithull comminity did nothing wrong yet we were flicked from the Olympics by the NMA that is "supposed" to represent us. Now we are in a "trial" period and if we behave ourselves we "might" get to stay. Really!? Is that the message you're sending us Matt? If any group needs to be on notice and watched carefully it's US Sailing! I know how the sausage is made Mr. Matt and it aint pretty.

It's also clear that you, Mark and Bert haven't picked up the phone and contacted ANYONE associated with Tradewinds to voice your concerns. Instead you would much rather post your "issues" here on the this forum? Hmmm... smells to me like someone in US Sailing doesn't want the event at Tradewinds and has an issue with Rick, how unlike US Sailing. Ah yes, US Sailing agenda driven politics... how I do miss that.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: David Ingram] #241271
12/14/11 09:19 AM
12/14/11 09:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by mbounds
And US Sailing is watching.


Okay, so!? This attititude that we are on some kind of US Sailing probabtion is at the very least annoying. May I remaind you Matt (US Sailing) that the mulithull comminity did nothing wrong yet we were flicked from the Olympics by the NMA that is "supposed" to represent us. Now we are in a "trial" period and if we behave ourselves we "might" get to stay. Really!? Is that the message you're sending us Matt? If any group needs to be on notice and watched carefully it's US Sailing! I know how the sausage is made Mr. Matt and it aint pretty.

It's also clear that you, Mark and Bert haven't picked up the phone and contacted ANYONE associated with the Tradewinds to voice your concerns. Instead you would much rather post those "issues" here on the this forum? Hmmm... smells to me like someone in US Sailing doesn't want the event at Tradewinds and has an issue with Rick, how unlike US Sailing. Ah yes, US Sailing agenda driven politics... how I do miss that.


US Sailing,
Since you are keeping such a close eye on us, could you answer the questions that pop-up everytime some misguided soul wants to join US Sailing about how to go about doing it and whats in it for them besides a cashed check.
Why did you kick the Tornadoes out of the Olympics and try to make up by starting a doomed to fail program instead?


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: David Ingram] #241273
12/14/11 09:52 AM
12/14/11 09:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Dave... give it a rest... you and US Sailing had a parting of the ways. You were on the call... you know there is no probation.

Your history summary is twisted and wrong.

What there is.... are standards that must be met if we want to be recognized as playing the same game the rest of the racing world does... Matt and I have continually spoken up about Tradewinds and Rick's choice to do it his way and be damned about the RRS. Its an annual event noting what is missing. Everybody chooses to play or not play at tradewinds. This year a USSA judge will take control of the rules and the issues will be moot.

The Steeple chase is very different!!!
All of us were under the impression that the steeplechase was a standard distance race under the RRS. So you get questions like.. ... why the scoring issues.. no RAF or DSQ
Why no protest hearing
Why no retirement after the collision.
We were ignorant of the actual rules for steeple chase.

Mary just stated.. The Steeplechase does not follow the RRS. ...never will.... Bottom line... the Col regs are the only rules worth discussing.

I suspect that under those rules all boats are at fault and they pay their own damages.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mark Schneider] #241276
12/14/11 10:32 AM
12/14/11 10:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Dave... give it a rest... you and US Sailing had a parting of the ways. You were on the call... you know there is no probation.



If you guys have an issue with Tradewinds do the needful and contact those responsible for the event get your issues addressed and quit bringing up the past and quit bringing up an issue from a regatta that has NOTHING and I repeat for you Mark just in case you missed it NOTHING TO DO WITH TRADEWINDS!!!!

If we aren't on probation why are be being watched?

As for giving it a rest I'll give it a rest when US Sailing stops looking down their nose at us and making us feel like we are the ones responsible for the Olympic debacle.

You do know I was booted from US Sailing, right? There was no happy parting of the ways. So I can now speak freely and plan to do so. If you guys want to beat up on a group that is trying to actually serve the needs of the sailors you better do your homework first. And here's an idea... offer to lend a hand.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mark Schneider] #241277
12/14/11 10:41 AM
12/14/11 10:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
TeamChums Offline
veteran
TeamChums  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304
Gulf Coast relocated from Cali...
Quote
I suspect that under those rules all boats are at fault and they pay their own damages.


Did you chew on your lead painted crib when you were a baby?


Lee

Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mark Schneider] #241278
12/14/11 10:45 AM
12/14/11 10:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
What is RAF?

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mary] #241279
12/14/11 10:46 AM
12/14/11 10:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Retire after finishing.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: David Ingram] #241281
12/14/11 10:47 AM
12/14/11 10:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Dave... give it a rest... you and US Sailing had a parting of the ways. You were on the call... you know there is no probation.



If you guys have an issue with Tradewinds do the needful and contact those responsible for the event get your issues addressed and quit bringing up the past and quit bringing up an issue from a regatta that has NOTHING and I repeat for you Mark just in case you missed it NOTHING TO DO WITH TRADEWINDS!!!!

If we aren't on probation why are be being watched?

As for giving it a rest I'll give it a rest when US Sailing stops looking down their nose at us and making us feel like we are the ones responsible for the Olympic debacle.

You do know I was booted from US Sailing, right? There was no happy parting of the ways. So I can now speak freely and plan to do so. If you guys want to beat up on a group that is trying to actually serve the needs of the sailors you better do you homework first. And here's an idea... offer to lend a hand.


Booted for what?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: pgp] #241285
12/14/11 11:00 AM
12/14/11 11:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
I was never given a reason. I suspect US Sailing didn't like being called on their sh!t, I was without a doubt a pain in their a$$. I heard through the grapevine that I didn't do as I was told and technically I couldn't be the Multihull Championship Chair and the MHC Chair I think the Chair thing is what they hung their hat on.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mary] #241288
12/14/11 11:11 AM
12/14/11 11:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Whoa! We, the curious of mind, buyers of boats, payor of dues and regatta fees want to hear the whole story.

Someone told you to take a hike? President of the largest catamaran class in the country? Without an explanation?

Under who's authority? As a paid-up member of USS I'd like to know if you please.

Last edited by pgp; 12/14/11 11:12 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: David Ingram] #241289
12/14/11 11:16 AM
12/14/11 11:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
You guys really need to put the hard-on you have for US Sailing back in your pants. Get over it already.

There is a widely held perception by the broader sailboat racing establishment that multihull sailors - especially beach cat sailors - are a bunch of hacks, and this little clusterf##k doesn't help. You have no idea how difficult it was for me to overcome this perception in the process of becoming a certified National Race Officer - the only NRO who's primary racing discipline is beach cats.

It would be one thing if Steeplechase remained a little-known fun race, but through the magic of the Internet - it's perceived as a big deal, promoted with front page coverage on a web site with international viewership and shared around to thousands of people on Facebook. Perception is reality, therefore Steeplechase is a big deal.

Whether you like it or not, US Sailing is the gatekeeper to the Olympics, the Olympic development program, the ISAF Worlds, the ISAF Youth Worlds, and yeah - the US Multihull Championship (Alter Cup) and Youth Multihull Championship (Stevens Trophy). They're in control, and if you don't play nice (according to them), you get benched, which Ding found out the hard way.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, Ding - Steplechase and Tradewinds do have a strong connection in Cat Sailor and Rick White. That's the perception at least. Again, perception is reality.

Kudos to Jamie L., Sarah N. and everybody else for getting Tradewinds hooked up with the Olympic Development, ISAF Youth Worlds and the US Youth Multihull Championships. But there's a lot a lot riding on Tradewinds. It's our chance to show the racing establishment that we really do know our stuff and that we can conduct the game at the highest level. We're not going to change the perception that we're hacks by screaming "WE DESERVE TO BE RESPECTED! RESPECT US!" Respect is earned, not given.

The confidence level at US Sailing of Tradewinds going off without a hitch is kind of low right now. Three certified judges is a start, but judges tend to be reactive - patching things up after the fact - not good. High-quality, certified race management teams keep bad stuff from happening in the first place. There are no shortage of them in Florida in January, and I hope Rick has really good certified people lined up. Having certified people spreads the blame if things go sideways.

And if you think I have any ulterior motive in this, you're wrong. I don't have the time in January to even consider attending Tradewinds as a race official (as if Rick would have me) or a competitor. The Hobie Class doesn't have a dog in this fight, either.

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: TeamChums] #241290
12/14/11 11:17 AM
12/14/11 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,063
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
old hand

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,063
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Originally Posted by TeamChums
Quote
I suspect that under those rules all boats are at fault and they pay their own damages.


Did you chew on your lead painted crib when you were a baby?


You know that is not such bad idea for distance racing. Coming from racing cars I was shocked to find out that each person was not responsible for their own damage.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: mbounds] #241292
12/14/11 11:24 AM
12/14/11 11:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Who is this "we" you speak of? You won't even be there!

Hack! I doubt anyone in USS, not all ready a multihull class member can even rig a catamaran.

Respect? I think Jobson needs to bring his butt to Tradewinds and at least show he can sail any one of these boats around a course! Maybe Rick will lend him a Wave.

Has beens! The whole damn bunch of you!

Last edited by pgp; 12/14/11 11:25 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: mbounds] #241293
12/14/11 11:26 AM
12/14/11 11:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,063
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
old hand

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,063
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Quote
The confidence level at US Sailing of Tradewinds going off without a hitch is kind of low right now. Three certified judges is a start, but judges tend to be reactive - patching things up after the fact - not good. High-quality, certified race management teams keep bad stuff from happening in the first place. There are no shortage of them in Florida in January, and I hope Rick has really good certified people lined up. Having certified people spreads the blame if things go sideways.


The problem is that you are confusing an extreme distance race with a buoy race. This is not the first year for the Tradewinds. I am sure the Rick will do a great job and the Tradewinds will be a success.

And Pete, calm down a bit...


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mary] #241294
12/14/11 11:28 AM
12/14/11 11:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
laugh Competition is all about zeal.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: mbounds] #241295
12/14/11 11:28 AM
12/14/11 11:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
If you're so concerned about beachcat sailing "going legit" perhaps you should start by participating in a class that didn't become popular by operating outside the establishment during its genesis.

Clearly the effort to legitimize cat sailing as an olympic sport has caused some of community to sacrifice the grassroots adventurist spirit on the altar of establishment approval.

If the price of admission to the Olympics is the firesale of the beachcat renegade character, is it really worth it?

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: Mary] #241296
12/14/11 11:30 AM
12/14/11 11:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
No. Catamarans don't need the Olympics, it is up to the Olympics to decide if they need, or want, catamarans.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Key Largo Steeplechase Update [Re: cyberspeed] #241299
12/14/11 11:34 AM
12/14/11 11:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Originally Posted by TeamChums
Quote
I suspect that under those rules all boats are at fault and they pay their own damages.


Did you chew on your lead painted crib when you were a baby?


You know that is not such bad idea for distance racing. Coming from racing cars I was shocked to find out that each person was not responsible for their own damage.

Not so sure it's a good idea either. To expect/believe that the liable party would not pay for damages might encourage the distance racer to stay at home. Just saying. . .


Philip
USA #1006
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