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Mixed Multihull Evaluation #242482
01/17/12 11:57 AM
01/17/12 11:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
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Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline OP
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With the US Sailing presence at Tradewinds, any talk about any US racers participating in the Mixed Multihull Evaluation in Santander, Spain this upcoming March? Applications are due to ISAF by the 20th and require US Sailing's (MNA) endorsement.

ISAF Evaluation Invitation

Out-of-pocket expense to get there and accommodations (maybe) for a week.

Equipment applications are also due Friday.


Kris Hathaway
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242484
01/17/12 12:04 PM
01/17/12 12:04 PM
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Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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The F16's results at Tradewinds should silence any skeptics about a mixed multihull event!

Lots of fast women drivers and crews out there in plenty of wind!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242491
01/17/12 12:26 PM
01/17/12 12:26 PM
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pgp Offline
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Jeez, I wasn't even thinking about that! Top two drivers were girls!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242492
01/17/12 12:26 PM
01/17/12 12:26 PM
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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There is at least one US team vying for a slot.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
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Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242495
01/17/12 12:29 PM
01/17/12 12:29 PM
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brucat Offline
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Wow, and the world didn't come to an end? Maybe the Mayans are right, and we have another 11 months after all...

Mike

Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: David Ingram] #242497
01/17/12 12:39 PM
01/17/12 12:39 PM
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Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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I read the invitation as for a single sailor.

They will be testing both the skiffs and mixed multihull.

I would think that Pease Glasser would be a superb choice from the USA and the International perspective
.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242530
01/17/12 09:27 PM
01/17/12 09:27 PM
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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Pease says she doesn't want to go.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242531
01/17/12 09:59 PM
01/17/12 09:59 PM
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Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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If the event was a couple weeks earlier, I would try to stop on my way back from Singapore. I really hope we can get some American sailors there, both for the sake of the skiff and the cat selection.

Would be really cool to try all the different boats!


USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Timbo] #242637
01/19/12 12:09 PM
01/19/12 12:09 PM
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Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo
The F's results at Trade winds should silence any skeptics about a mixed Multihull event!

Lots of fast women drivers and crews out there in plenty of wind!


I think you miss the point at least as far as I see it.

When woman's track is required to have a man anchor the 4x100 relay, or a woman do the same on the men's squad then forcing multihulls to do what they're doing might make sense. It should be open to whoever qualifies and hopefully that's done on a level playing field. Frankly if I were a woman I would be pissed that I couldn't crew with another woman.

As the father of two daughters I get a bit steamed when I hear they need a man to compete in this world.

What's being offered here is not the best of the best. It's social engineering and while it might be entertaining it's not the Olympics.


Have Fun
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242639
01/19/12 12:19 PM
01/19/12 12:19 PM
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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Uhhh, yes it is, Mike. Honest. You can look it up.

Plenty of opportunity for your girls out there. And, if you'll dig a little, you'll find that the mixed multihull in 2016 is the path to a women's multihull in 2020. Without it, there would still be women's sailing options, but not on a cat at the Olympics. Ever.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242677
01/20/12 02:29 AM
01/20/12 02:29 AM
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Australia
macca Offline
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Is there any evidence from ISAF that they have the slightest intention to grow the multihull from the current mixed discipline to 2 events in 2020?

I can't find it and to be honest, it seems to exist only in the heads of some smile


________________________
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Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242690
01/20/12 09:45 AM
01/20/12 09:45 AM
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Palm Harbor, FL
daniel_t Offline
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I have mixed feelings about this issue (pun intended.) What are the choices? I think male only or female only would be wrong, unless you have two "separate but equal" events. As I understand the history, open classes were effectively the same as "male," so that's out. So we are left with "open with minimum of one female" or "mixed." The former would be the more sexist of the two.

Mike, how would you like it set up? I expect you would want something that gives your daughters a chance to compete without relegating them to second class, or maybe you think that women sailors are inherently inferior and so they need their own race? (Yes, I realize that this is a loaded question, feel free to ignore it.)

In any case, the real question isn't "what's most fair," but rather what is good for sailing as a sport, and biasing the Olympics to encourage woman involvement is, I think, a very good thing.


Daniel T.
Taipan F16 - USA 213
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: macca] #242694
01/20/12 10:18 AM
01/20/12 10:18 AM
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Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Originally Posted by macca
Is there any evidence from ISAF that they have the slightest intention to grow the multihull from the current mixed discipline to 2 events in 2020?


You know as well as any how it works. There is a renewed discussion every quad. At present, there are ISAF committee members and MNA representatives that are very much on-board with this longer-range plan. Coming up with that plan was one of the first things done when we lost the last event.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: John Williams] #242697
01/20/12 10:24 AM
01/20/12 10:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline OP
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Kris Hathaway  Offline OP
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"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"

Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242709
01/20/12 11:00 AM
01/20/12 11:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Originally Posted by Kris Hathaway
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"


More like a thousand butt's kissed.


Have Fun
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: John Williams] #242711
01/20/12 11:02 AM
01/20/12 11:02 AM
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Originally Posted by John Williams
Uhhh, yes it is, Mike. Honest. You can look it up.

Plenty of opportunity for your girls out there. And, if you'll dig a little, you'll find that the mixed multihull in 2016 is the path to a women's multihull in 2020. Without it, there would still be women's sailing options, but not on a cat at the Olympics. Ever.


So does that mean there will be mixed and womens in 2020, but no open/mens?


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

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If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
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Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Kris Hathaway] #242714
01/20/12 11:18 AM
01/20/12 11:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
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Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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I think there is a broad consensus that Olympic sailing is the pinnacle of dinghy/small boat sailing. Now you have to define the pinnacle of what... a pyramid, a column, or a handful of devoted athletes.?

Two multihull medals will flounder when the fact is that few woman raced multi's world wide at the international level.

So, the future of a Men's event is based entirely on generating enough demand from woman sailors for a Multihull medal.

Obviously, we don't have much of a pyramid of woman racing multihulls right now.. ... So... how you generate demand for an Olympic Mulithull and how many countries MNA's will step up and train woman is a critical issue. This could be a problem and worse... it is compounded when these same MNA's must step up and train woman for woman's skiff's at the same time.

The assumption is that when you offer the medals... they will come.

IMO.... men's multihull in 2020 is mostly aspirational..


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: Mark Schneider] #242716
01/20/12 11:33 AM
01/20/12 11:33 AM
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FL
sail7seas Offline
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I wonder the about the number of woman raced multi's world wide at the international level vs the number of women who match race keel boats.
Was there a pyramid of women keel boat match racing?

Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: daniel_t] #242720
01/20/12 12:10 PM
01/20/12 12:10 PM
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Originally Posted by daniel_t

or maybe you think that women sailors are inherently inferior and so they need their own race? (Yes, I realize that this is a loaded question, feel free to ignore it.)



I've written a few responses to this comment but thought better of hitting the submit key. (as you should have)

Sufficient to say your ignorance is deafening.



Have Fun
Re: Mixed Multihull Evaluation [Re: sail7seas] #242721
01/20/12 12:14 PM
01/20/12 12:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Quote

I wonder the about the number of woman raced multi's world wide at the international level vs the number of women who match race keel boats.
Was there a pyramid of women keel boat match racing?


Ding DING DING ... a killer observation!

NO

and both the discipline (match) AND the boat (Elliot) AND the type (Keelboat) were tossed for 2016(rejected by the majority of MNA's because they did not want to play)

The Olympic pinnacle rested on a handful of athletes (with killer political skills)... not even a thin reed of grass roots support.

The take home message should be.... There is a danger in putting the cart before the horse.







Last edited by Mark Schneider; 01/20/12 12:15 PM.

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