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2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants #243337
02/01/12 04:52 AM
02/01/12 04:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 98
N
NacramanUK Offline OP
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NacramanUK  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 98
Boats entered for the the trials:

Hobie 16 Hobie Cat
Hobie Tiger Hobie Cat
Nacra 17 Nacra Sailing International
Nacra F16 Nacra Sailing International
Spitfire S Sirena Voile
Tornado International Tornado Class Association
Viper Australian High Performance Catamarans (AHPC)

Last edited by NacramanUK; 02/01/12 01:15 PM.
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Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243339
02/01/12 05:56 AM
02/01/12 05:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Thanks for the list. Interesting that 3 of them are F16 type platforms. Where and when is the trial going to take place?


Blade F16
#777
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: Timbo] #243340
02/01/12 06:00 AM
02/01/12 06:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 98
N
NacramanUK Offline OP
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NacramanUK  Offline OP
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Posts: 98
Originally Posted by Timbo
Thanks for the list. Interesting that 3 of them are F16 type platforms. Where and when is the trial going to take place?


17th to 25th of March in Santander, Spain..

Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243342
02/01/12 06:05 AM
02/01/12 06:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Thanks. I found it on Google maps, looks like a great location.


Blade F16
#777
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243343
02/01/12 06:26 AM
02/01/12 06:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 36
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Gav F18 Offline
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Posts: 36
Hobie 16 is with Spin.

Could be the dark horse especially if they supply boats.

Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243344
02/01/12 06:45 AM
02/01/12 06:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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I hope there's lots and lots of wind! The Hobie 16 loves big wind!


Blade F16
#777
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243346
02/01/12 07:14 AM
02/01/12 07:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL
daniel_t Offline
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daniel_t  Offline
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No Topper SL16 on the list... Shame.


Daniel T.
Taipan F16 - USA 213
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243363
02/01/12 11:27 AM
02/01/12 11:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
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california
No F-20C ?


Richard Vilvens
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PSA Capricorn USA
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Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243364
02/01/12 12:07 PM
02/01/12 12:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
H
Headhunter Offline
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Headhunter  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Dunedin, FL
No Sizzler. I'm appalled.

Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243375
02/01/12 02:25 PM
02/01/12 02:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Originally Posted by NacramanUK
Boats entered for the the trials:

Hobie 16 Hobie Cat
Hobie Tiger Hobie Cat
Nacra 17 Nacra Sailing International
Nacra F16 Nacra Sailing International
Spitfire S Sirena Voile
Tornado International Tornado Class Association
Viper Australian High Performance Catamarans (AHPC)


In the end ISAF will choose whatever they like, regardless the tests, submissions, participants, etc.


Luiz
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: Luiz] #243376
02/01/12 02:33 PM
02/01/12 02:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by Luiz
In the end ISAF will choose whatever they like, regardless the tests, submissions, participants, etc.


Sadly I have to agree.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: David Ingram] #243378
02/01/12 03:10 PM
02/01/12 03:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Luiz
In the end ISAF will choose whatever they like, regardless the tests, submissions, participants, etc.


Sadly I have to agree.


eh... that is not a fair critique... the test pilots and the sailing tests can really only contribute information about the boat's performance on the water. There are only two new boats in the trials and only one boat looks or tries to be special (N17).

What don't people know about a Hobie 16 with spin, a Tiger, a Viper, or the Spitfire.?
These multihull trials are pretty dull... After the Nacra 17 (how fast is this boat with the curved foils and 100 lbs lighter then an F18) ... It becomes a choice... It's like choosing between chocolate and vanilla ice cream. choose one... it is really not a decision based on the boats merits..

Take a look at the invitation. This has always been a political judgement on what equipment would be the most widely adopted. Of course ISAF has to make that call... ISAF is the political organization for all of the MNA's that go Olympic racing.

Why do you think Hobie paid to trial a H16 with spin? If ISAF primarily wants an established boat world wide... ISAF will make a decision on the basis of the established world wide factor. The test pilots don't have the authority to decide.




crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243379
02/01/12 03:28 PM
02/01/12 03:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL
daniel_t Offline
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daniel_t  Offline
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Palm Harbor, FL
Luiz,

Yes, they will choose whatever they like... It's our job (recreation really,) to try to guess which one they will pick. Maybe we should start a pool? Or at least a poll. :-)



Daniel T.
Taipan F16 - USA 213
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243388
02/01/12 06:53 PM
02/01/12 06:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 554
Boston, Ma
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Jeff.Dusek Offline
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Boston, Ma
I agree the Multihull submissions are pretty straightforward... the women's skiff entrants are much more varied imho.

One important part of the debate is who is US Sailing going to send to the trials to represent us? Would be a fun gig, and I hope the person has a solid background in performance sailing.

Last edited by Jeff.Dusek; 02/01/12 06:53 PM.

USF18 Eastern Area Rep
Nacra Infusion USA 753
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #243403
02/02/12 09:09 AM
02/02/12 09:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
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If it was choice of F16 which one?
Nacra F16 Nacra Sailing International
Spitfire S Sirena Voile
Viper Australian High Performance Catamarans (AHPC)

Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: sail7seas] #243409
02/02/12 10:12 AM
02/02/12 10:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
If it was choice of F16 which one?
Nacra F16 Nacra Sailing International
Spitfire S Sirena Voile
Viper Australian High Performance Catamarans (AHPC)

Depends on the rest of the deal...

The Olympics dominate the summer ISAF schedule. The next quad needs events world wide in mixed multihull beyond the ISAF grade I events. The idea is that you need to build the competitor field. So... does one of these builders have an event plan?... Does a builder then raise the bar and provide charter boats for international teams competing at these events ... Does one builder have training camps or something included for the juniors in this brand new pipeline.

Obviously... this poker game will be behind closed doors.

I think picking one F16 flavor based on sailing properties is about the same as choosing between Chocolate, Vanilla or Strawberry ice cream and as inconsequential.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: NacramanUK] #243423
02/02/12 02:06 PM
02/02/12 02:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Spitfire is a SMOD class and does not measure in as an F16.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: Mark Schneider] #243427
02/02/12 03:09 PM
02/02/12 03:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Luiz
In the end ISAF will choose whatever they like, regardless the tests, submissions, participants, etc.


Sadly I have to agree.


eh... that is not a fair critique... the test pilots and the sailing tests can really only contribute information about the boat's performance on the water. There are only two new boats in the trials and only one boat looks or tries to be special (N17).

What don't people know about a Hobie 16 with spin, a Tiger, a Viper, or the Spitfire.?
These multihull trials are pretty dull... After the Nacra 17 (how fast is this boat with the curved foils and 100 lbs lighter then an F18) ... It becomes a choice... It's like choosing between chocolate and vanilla ice cream. choose one... it is really not a decision based on the boats merits..

Take a look at the invitation. This has always been a political judgement on what equipment would be the most widely adopted. Of course ISAF has to make that call... ISAF is the political organization for all of the MNA's that go Olympic racing.

Why do you think Hobie paid to trial a H16 with spin? If ISAF primarily wants an established boat world wide... ISAF will make a decision on the basis of the established world wide factor. The test pilots don't have the authority to decide.


Let us suppose that you are right. In this case, why waste time and money in submissions, test pilots travel expenses, overseers expenses, secretarys expenses, committe members expenses, trials, commitee meetings, written conclusions, other commitee meetings in another country, etc.? ISAF could and should spend this time and money in useful things. In the end the old guys in the council do whatever they want, so why bother with all this? I guess we all know the answer: money.
It goes like this:
I would ask the local sailing federation to pay my sailing vocations in Spain, eeeeer, Olympic equipment trials in Spain then... politics!! Too bad the commodore knows the king, sails a SC15 and is first in line...

This is how ISAF, US Sailing and other federations work. And this is why I refuse to do anything but sailing. I don't like sailing "politics", just sailing.

BTW, this was just an example, our country isn't sending anyone to "trials", "commitees" and the like.

Take care,


Luiz
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: Mark Schneider] #243429
02/02/12 03:20 PM
02/02/12 03:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

I think picking one F16 flavor based on sailing properties is about the same as choosing between Chocolate, Vanilla or Strawberry ice cream and as inconsequential.


Except for the manufacturer.


Luiz
Re: 2016 Olympic catamaran equipment evaluation entrants [Re: Luiz] #243431
02/02/12 03:30 PM
02/02/12 03:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Quote
Let us suppose that you are right. In this case, why waste time and money in submissions, test pilot travel expenses, trials, commitee meetings, written conclusions, other commitee meetings, etc.?


That's easy... the N17 is a new design, the Nacra F16 is also a new flavor in the F16 world. Nobody has sailed them yet.. The Spitfire probably is not known in Asia or North South America... so... you have a trial, the sailors get to say these boats acceptable... these boats not... The politics is needed to get the max number of MNA's on board and willing to get a team to the Olympics.


Quote
ISAF should spend our time and money in useful things. In the end the old guys in the council do whatever they want, so why bother with all this? I guess we all know the answer: spend money. Easy money.
It goes like this:
I would ask the local sailing federation to pay my sailing vocations in Spain, eeeeer, Olympic equipment trials in Spain...

Problem is the commodore knows the king and is first in line. This is how ISAF, US Sailing and other federations work. And this is why I refuse to do anything but sailing. I don't like sailing "politics", just sailing.


OK.... just a standard rant against the powers in charge, sailing politics etc ....
No worries... but politics is the only way you get a consensus.

Would you be happy if the King just made a decree on classes and boats? ..



crac.sailregattas.com
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