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Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. #243458
02/03/12 09:13 AM
02/03/12 09:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Mark Milam Offline OP
newbie
Mark Milam  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Hi everyone,
Just by sheer luck..a guy in my town has a H 17 he is parting out and has both rudder castings and tiller tubes and EPOs.....I have a 2009 Wave with EZ lock rudders. When I go look at it, How do I know if its going to be the same castings as the old style Waves.....I 've heard that the H17 is the same, is there any year that they Weren't the same and would not fit???

Also, I think I need to change out my newer pintles...is it just the Top Pintle or is it both?? Also...since the boat is a 2009, maybe the pintle bolts will come loose, Do y'all recommend heating them with a soldering iron first (to soften up the locktite)...do they usually come unscrewed or do the Break the heads off most of the time???

Finally, would the upgrade be worth it, assuming I can get the whole set up for couple of hundred dollars...we haven't talked price yet...What is Fair???? I do want to set up the boat for the Best racing setup, realizing the lose nut on the tiller is hardest part to fix :D:D.

Thanks so much any help.

Mark Milam
Louisiana.

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Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243475
02/03/12 12:30 PM
02/03/12 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Mark Milam Offline OP
newbie
Mark Milam  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Umm I think the new style pintles will work with the old style casting and the Ez lock. I have a older Bravo with the old style casting (same part number at least) and it fits on the 09' wave pintles, so maybe I won't have to change the pintles and can go back and forth between rudder systems.

Mark Milam
Louisiana

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243479
02/03/12 01:20 PM
02/03/12 01:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Mark Milam
Umm I think the new style pintles will work with the old style casting and the Ez lock. I have a older Bravo with the old style casting (same part number at least) and it fits on the 09' wave pintles, so maybe I won't have to change the pintles and can go back and forth between rudder systems.

Mark Milam
Louisiana


I switched and didn't change the pintels. You may need to put a spacer on top of the housing at the lower position so the rudder can't move up and down.

The spacer goes between the cotter clip and the housing.

You will also need to order the proper Wave tiller tubes and swap them out. Not very expensive and it is easy to do.

The last parts is that you will need a shorter x-bar and most of us use the H20 adjustable fittings on one end.

It is risky to try and remove the pintel screws if they are stuck. If you are lucky, the are loose enough that you can slowly back them out without stressing (twisting) them. It is a good idea to check them from time to time so that they DON'T get stuck. If you break one, they are very hard to drill out cleanly.

Once they have been twisted, they should be replaced because the metal has been stressed and is weak.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243481
02/03/12 01:28 PM
02/03/12 01:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Albenarle NC
J
jackbr549 Offline
journeyman
jackbr549  Offline
journeyman
J

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Albenarle NC
I have both types of Wave here and yesterday I put the 17 casting on the new EZ lock pins and it works fine. The pins are a little longer on the EZ lock so you may need a spacer on the bottom to share the load on the top and bottom. Then the arms and cross bar will need some work. Just get them on the boat and get them tracking good and your set. You can use a tiller now so cut off each side of the cross bar.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243482
02/03/12 01:41 PM
02/03/12 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Mark Milam Offline OP
newbie
Mark Milam  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Thanks...What about the EPO rudders that he has on the H 17....Does anyone know it the Holes should be the same that fit the casting for the WAVE......or would I need to fill them and Re drill..........

If I need to re drill is there a Template out there or something I can use???

Mark

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243486
02/03/12 02:15 PM
02/03/12 02:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Mark Milam
Thanks...What about the EPO rudders that he has on the H 17....Does anyone know it the Holes should be the same that fit the casting for the WAVE......or would I need to fill them and Re drill..........

If I need to re drill is there a Template out there or something I can use???

Mark


They should transfer without any problem. They are somewhat adjustable for rudder rake. but most of us just set them and forget them.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243509
02/03/12 06:51 PM
02/03/12 06:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Albenarle NC
J
jackbr549 Offline
journeyman
jackbr549  Offline
journeyman
J

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Albenarle NC
If your talking about the EZ lock rudder cast I think the holes will be different. I will try and check it tomorrow. Try to buy everything for the rudders off the 17.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243525
02/04/12 02:29 AM
02/04/12 02:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Mark Milam Offline OP
newbie
Mark Milam  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Thanks everyone..I picked up the used set of H17 castings...Of course they need new cams and all...but the price was good and the guy lived in my home town....He throw in two EPO rudders...older ones...One is in real good shape, but the other one has about 3 in. ground off the bottom and some of the Glass is showing through, It was dragged down the road laugh.....

I guess its really hard to change the cams without backing off the Tension adjuster, Which was frozen solid....I drilled out the delrin bolt for it and got everything ready to just rebuild them, might as well do it now.

Mark Milam
Lafayette, La.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243534
02/04/12 07:46 AM
02/04/12 07:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
enthusiast
IndyWave  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
All that extra maintenance is why Hobie ditched those obsolete rudders several years ago. The EZ Locs are so much simpler and work much better. I think you'd be crazy to switch.


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243535
02/04/12 08:49 AM
02/04/12 08:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Albenarle NC
J
jackbr549 Offline
journeyman
jackbr549  Offline
journeyman
J

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Albenarle NC
If you spray some WB40 on the cam every day if you sail in salt water you will not have any trouble with the cam.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243537
02/04/12 10:31 AM
02/04/12 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Mark Milam Offline OP
newbie
Mark Milam  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Hi Indy,
I'm Am CRAZY...:D .if I was Sane, you'd think I'd be messing around with boats :D:D.....Its a Love/Hate Relationship

Well, I'm not really switching, I'm keeping both laugh....the pintles on the new boat fit both styles,....So most of the time I'll have the EZ lock on when my daughters take the boat out or we drag it behind the Big Boat.....When I go out sailing, I'll just pop on the older style with the EPO's........

I never really had any trouble with Cams on my other Hobies from the past, once you get them adjusted right and a little preventive maintenance, they were good.....You are Definitely Right Though, the EZ lock is a No Brainer as far as simplicity... and I probably wouldn't have got the Older style if they weren't being sold by a guy in my town for a couple hundred bucks including EPO's....so that was part of it.......Besides, better spending money on Boats, then chasing Women and Gambling...:D:D........I have to keep one bad Vice laugh. Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

Mark M.
Lafayette La.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: jackbr549] #243542
02/04/12 04:00 PM
02/04/12 04:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
wd40 is petroleum based and attracts and holds dirt, ergo the parts wear out faster. Best bet is McLube. Spray often.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: RickWhite] #243661
02/07/12 09:54 AM
02/07/12 09:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
White Lightning and DuPont Krytox dry lubes also work. They are dry wax based bicycle chain lubes. The wax is dissolved in a liquid that evaporates, so they go on wet and deposit a thin film of wax. Their big advantage is they clean surfaces by floating crud to the top of the wax where it gets rubbed off and they are cheap at the big box stores.

Be careful with chain lube though. They sometimes add a little oil or grease and call it and call it extended ride or wet ride. Read the label.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243679
02/07/12 04:40 PM
02/07/12 04:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Mark Milam Offline OP
newbie
Mark Milam  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Thanks Carl, I have some white lightning for my bike anyway..

Mark.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #243739
02/09/12 08:34 AM
02/09/12 08:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
White Lightning now has 2 products that will work, Clean Ride and Easy Lube. They are the same thing except "Easy Lube labeling uses non-technical language as it is targeted to the recreational rider". In bikespeak that means maybe not very bright I guess I should feel insulted when the bike shop salesman insists I buy Easy Lube.

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: carlbohannon] #243811
02/10/12 09:32 AM
02/10/12 09:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
I am about to take on a new supplier for something similar to McLube. it is called InfiniLube. I have not used it much, but it appears to act the same as McLube
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #244161
02/16/12 04:21 PM
02/16/12 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Here's a great way to remove the Derlin screw, without risking damage to the threads.

Get the biggest, longest screwdriver you can find that will fit in the screw head.

Heat the screwdriver until it is very, very, very hot (such as, put the tip of the screwdriver in the flame of a BBQ grill for a few minutes).

When it's hot enough, immediately put it into the screw and push it in as the Derlin melts. Make sure it goes into the screw at least 1/2 inch. DO NOT turn the screwdriver while doing this.

After you've made this new slot in the screw, remove the screwdriver. Pour cold water over the screw so the plastic hardens. Place the screwdriver into some cold water (such as in a cooler with ice).

When the screw and screwdriver are sufficiently cold, insert the screwdriver and remove the screw. If the screw is really stuck, it helps to use a pair of vice grips on the shaft of the screwdriver to add leverage when turning.

The beauty of this method is, you don't destroy the screw (it can be re-used) OR the threads, and everything you need can be found on the beach at a typical Hobie event!

Mike

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: brucat] #244176
02/16/12 06:48 PM
02/16/12 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
Mark Milam Offline OP
newbie
Mark Milam  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Louisiana, Pcola Fl.
I tried that Too....Bent the Screw driver shaft (twisted it)...it was really stuck...:D...I used a wood boring drill, small than the plug and came from under neath....as I almost got all of it out, it unscrewed itself with the bit...I didn't mess up any threads coming from underneath and using a slightly smaller bit....Used a wire bottle brush to dress up threads and will run a 3/4 in bolt in there with WD 40 to get them nice again. I'm just going to rebuild the whole castings...they were pretty old anyway. ......Thanks though.
Mark Milam

Re: Need help..got a deal on old style H 17 rudder castings.. [Re: Mark Milam] #245481
03/13/12 07:15 AM
03/13/12 07:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
BE sure to put anti-seize on the aluminum. Run the screw back and forth a couple of times to make sure it is well distributed


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