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Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) #247019
04/15/12 04:55 AM
04/15/12 04:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22
Karl Funk Offline OP
stranger
Karl Funk  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22
Paul and I made our maiden voyage on the Kwyjiboat yesterday. My first time on a cat as well as a wire. 12-18 TWS. It was a blast. No regrets. Relatively few things blew up...

However - after spending altogether too much time holding the boat in the 45 degree water while trying to lock the main halyard - we finally pulled it over and locked it by hand.

Wondering if anyone has some advise on this system. Unlike the one in the Nacra manual - ours has a swiveling hook (perhaps a standard now?). We had the knot forward and everything was run properly. I did notice that the head of the main was probably interfering with the swivel and perhaps pushing it aside at just the wrong moment.

Does the size of the knot matter? The diameter of the halyard? Our ring seems just slightly twisted so I will replace that. Anything else?

Cheers,
Karl
Team Kwyjiboat
Nacra Infusion MkII'ed


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247022
04/15/12 05:51 AM
04/15/12 05:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
USA1273 Offline
journeyman
USA1273  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Just so everyone understands the very frustrating launch, this is the newer Infusion rig...

This was over 1 hour or work. Boat had to be flipped twice to look at the issue, finally flipped the boat to lock the ring on the hook.

Not using a bowline, so we are getting max hoist.

Knot forward
Knot aft
Reverse hook - retie
Knot forward
Knot aft
Pull and reverse the main halyard
Knot forward
Knot aft
Reverse hook - retie
Knot forward
Knot aft

With the hook that swivels do you need to notch the headboard so the headboard does not turn the hook when at max hoist hoisting? it looks like the top of the headboard actually can turn the hook when it hits the bottom
of the "floating" hook.

I have sailed cats since 1991 and I have never had a locking issue as bad as this one with any of the rigs I have ever owned.


F18 USA 1273
Andrews 77 (SOLD) Melges 32 (SOLD) Formula18 Olympic 49er (FOR SALE)
Always outnumbered - Never outgunned....
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247028
04/15/12 08:16 AM
04/15/12 08:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
I'm not sure why it works, but try running the halyard up the other side of the hook - if it is on the starboard side, switch to port.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247029
04/15/12 08:43 AM
04/15/12 08:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
No experience with the Infusion, but on the AHPC boats, sometimes what direction the knot is tied matters, (I have no idea why), as in left over right or right over left. Also we use a double over hand knot.

My latest boat was a nightmare to hook and unhook. I tried every which way, and nothing worked consistently. I ended up making a tapered main halyard, splicing a loop on the end, and luggage tagged the ring on to the halyard. It too is crabby sometimes.


I'm boatless.
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247031
04/15/12 01:36 PM
04/15/12 01:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
What JW said is true, for some reason our line always has to starboard of the hook.
Last year we had a lot of problems with locking, this was due to the ring getting streched a bit.
It wasnt even that much but they do have to be round to work properly.

Last year someone posted a picture of a line they had spliced to the ring, is that still around?

Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Tony_F18] #247038
04/15/12 07:03 PM
04/15/12 07:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 9
G
goose151 Offline
stranger
goose151  Offline
stranger
G

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 9
Throw away the standard infusion setup and replace with a large SS ring and large twist shackle.
I am on my 3rd Infusion and still dont use the nacra supplied setup. Their rings are to small in thickness and stretch and the knot gets in the way.

I use the same setup the old Nacra 5.8 had. It is a 50mm SS ring 8mm and large twist shackle. Never have a problem.

Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247039
04/15/12 07:43 PM
04/15/12 07:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
The Wildcat has a cool setup. The ring is sewn into the head of the sail, and you tie the halyard on I think. Except for scratching the bu-jesus outta the mast, I'm a huge fan of the skyhook.


I'm boatless.
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247042
04/15/12 08:38 PM
04/15/12 08:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
old hand
wildtsail  Offline
old hand

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
I loved that setup on the wildcat.
Karl, another thing to try is to untie the line from the top of the ring and tie it with a figure eight and loop style around the top of shackle and bottom of the ring, provided you have a one piece welded shackle and ring. The line should run in front of the top of the ring.
We had no issues for a year then they started so we switched to this method and had no issues since.

Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: wildtsail] #247053
04/16/12 05:17 AM
04/16/12 05:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
addict
Dlennard  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
The hook on top of the mast also has a metal loop that that the halyard has to pass though to keep the hook from moving. I have good luck with just running the halyard though the loop on the ring and whipping it and then put a piece of heat shrink tubing over it (about a inch tail). When you hoist the sail go slow when you get to the top and you can hear the ring hook on the catch, don't pull the sail up too high as it just moves the ring out of the way. Last make sure the the top of the mast is in alinement with the hook as you can bend it a little to make it work better ( I had one that was very bad out of alinement).

Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247057
04/16/12 08:28 AM
04/16/12 08:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
R
rexdenton Offline
enthusiast
rexdenton  Offline
enthusiast
R

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 297
Todd's (WildTsail) suggestion is good. I sailed that boat and it works better than mine, which was done the conventional way. However, also check to see that the hook freely swivels. Ours would catch on the mast, and did not freely swivel. This made taking the main down a bit of a hassle, as turning the mast would also turn the hook too, as there is a loop on the inside of the hook that can catch. A little tweak with pliers and no problem.


Nacra F18 #856
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247082
04/17/12 07:58 AM
04/17/12 07:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
USA1273 Offline
journeyman
USA1273  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Thanks everyone, lots of stuff for us to try..... and good to know that we were not the only team struggling with this set up....

See everyone at the NE training Sunday.

Last edited by USA1273; 04/17/12 07:59 AM.

F18 USA 1273
Andrews 77 (SOLD) Melges 32 (SOLD) Formula18 Olympic 49er (FOR SALE)
Always outnumbered - Never outgunned....
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: goose151] #247095
04/17/12 12:49 PM
04/17/12 12:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
old hand
pitchpoledave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
I have some with larger rings, about 1/4" larger if anyone wants..
I tried a larger Hobie ring on my F20c and I stretched it into an oval.

Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247350
04/22/12 08:57 PM
04/22/12 08:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
USA1273 Offline
journeyman
USA1273  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Switched to our new Glaser main - locked on the first try every time, every session, this weekend.... looks like a ring vs. a headboard and cutting the boltrope down 2 inches makes a huge difference.

Last edited by USA1273; 04/22/12 08:59 PM.

F18 USA 1273
Andrews 77 (SOLD) Melges 32 (SOLD) Formula18 Olympic 49er (FOR SALE)
Always outnumbered - Never outgunned....
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247390
04/23/12 01:46 PM
04/23/12 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Makes sense, the ring that hooks on the mast can't twist as easily with a head board.


I'm boatless.
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247394
04/23/12 02:45 PM
04/23/12 02:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
FWIW, I did some rigging on a 2007 Infusion over the weekend that included a new main halyard - the team complained that they had significant difficulty both raising and lowering the main, to the point that their halyard broke from pulling it so hard. I used a low-stretch halyard, cleaned out the mast track, lubed it with good silicon spray, and filed two pinch-points that appear to have resulted either from trailering or dropping the mast. Got a "thank you" email last night indicating that the main went up and came down on the first try. Seasonally checking the track, a good cleaning to get out the salt and sand, and using a quality silicon spray is a good idea.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: John Williams] #247395
04/23/12 03:30 PM
04/23/12 03:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
J
JACKFLASH Offline
enthusiast
JACKFLASH  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 291
Silicone spray? Wouldn't a dry tef/Mclube be better in that it won't attract sand and salt to stick to it.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247407
04/23/12 07:09 PM
04/23/12 07:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/products/14147-silicone-spray-lubricant-9oz.html

This stuff is great and doesn't gum up at all. More persistent than McLube, in my experience.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247419
04/24/12 07:27 AM
04/24/12 07:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22
Karl Funk Offline OP
stranger
Karl Funk  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22
All great suggestions. Thanks!

As Paul said - switching to the Glaser main made a difference. I have now modded the Performance main to work the same. It no longer holds the rotating hook off to the side.

On Sunday we had to use the moving the halyard to the other side of the hook trick as well.

I agree with JW in regards to keeping the track clean and lubed. Probably worth putting McLube on the actual bolt rope as well.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Infusion Main Halyard (not) Locking (ing) [Re: Karl Funk] #247420
04/24/12 08:00 AM
04/24/12 08:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
addict
Kris Hathaway  Offline
addict

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Hoisting the main is probably the most ritualistic operation I follow. I always use the same "Aussie" halyard ring. The knot is always tied the same and always facing aft. The halyard is always on the port side of the "hook". As a result, it is always a clean hoist and douse.

Nothing worse than being on a crowded "beach" and have your hoist ring hung up. Especially after a challenging day of racing and the beer is cold.


Kris Hathaway

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