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Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: JJ_] #248134
05/11/12 05:33 AM
05/11/12 05:33 AM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Originally Posted by JJ_


In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.



Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: bacho] #248137
05/11/12 06:53 AM
05/11/12 06:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by bacho
Originally Posted by JJ_


In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.



Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.


That might have been a PlanB ... but, if the boat was already oriented with the mast pointing into the wind, I'm not sure if he could have spun or turtled the boat intentionally at that point.


Jake Kohl
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: bacho] #248138
05/11/12 07:31 AM
05/11/12 07:31 AM
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Posts: 235
JJ_ Offline
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Originally Posted by bacho
Originally Posted by JJ_


In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.



Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.
I assume that the crew would not have gotten separated if he did not have to worry about righting the boat, and preventing a turtle.

To not have to worry about turtling would have given him time to get her on the boat, and the harness fixed at least temporarily. If you have to turtle a boat, then carry pliers and either take a pin out or cut the shroud. I got a nice pair of linesman pliers. At that point, though, it's really Plan B, as Jake said.

To stop these kinds of "cascade"/"slippery slope" series of problems takes a couple of minutes to pause in a calm, safe place and get things back in order. I have heard it said often: If the boat capsizes, don't let go of it.

That said, how could he have gotten the boat to stay into the wind in those kinds of conditions and taken a look at the rudder?

Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: JJ_] #248139
05/11/12 07:32 AM
05/11/12 07:32 AM

M
MN3
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MN3
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M



Originally Posted by JJ_
I don't understand why race organizers didn't bail...

I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?

Last edited by MN3; 05/11/12 07:35 AM.
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: ] #248149
05/11/12 10:10 AM
05/11/12 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by MN3
Originally Posted by JJ_
I don't understand why race organizers didn't bail...

I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?


Gusts to 30 or better.


Jake Kohl
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: JJ_] #248150
05/11/12 10:13 AM
05/11/12 10:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by JJ_
Originally Posted by bacho
Originally Posted by JJ_


In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.



Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.
I assume that the crew would not have gotten separated if he did not have to worry about righting the boat, and preventing a turtle.

To not have to worry about turtling would have given him time to get her on the boat, and the harness fixed at least temporarily. If you have to turtle a boat, then carry pliers and either take a pin out or cut the shroud. I got a nice pair of linesman pliers. At that point, though, it's really Plan B, as Jake said.

To stop these kinds of "cascade"/"slippery slope" series of problems takes a couple of minutes to pause in a calm, safe place and get things back in order. I have heard it said often: If the boat capsizes, don't let go of it.

That said, how could he have gotten the boat to stay into the wind in those kinds of conditions and taken a look at the rudder?


I've had the boat capsized and the rudder arm kicked over on the I20 once (it was a similar kind of day). I couldn't get the arms flipped back while the boat was on it's side. That's why I expect to tie a small piece of bunji from the rear beam to the rudder arms (dangling loose) to keep them from flipping over next time I'm expecting any weather like that.


Jake Kohl
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248152
05/11/12 10:14 AM
05/11/12 10:14 AM
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Posts: 3,969
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Cancelling a race is the most difficult decision to ever make. You'll never please everyone (especially Hobie 16 sailors) unless it's solidly over 30 knots.

Gusts to 30 knots at this event? I know that's what he said on youtube, but has that been confirmed somewhere?

It never looks as windy in the video or pics as it feels at the time.

Most sailors ALWAYS over-estimate the wind speeds in anything over 10 knots. Really good sailors, anything over 15.

I have to stop watching that video. I just saw that another boat sailed by while he was alone and capsized. Of course, they may have been the ones to go and get help from the Sea Tow boat?

Mike

Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: brucat] #248155
05/11/12 10:35 AM
05/11/12 10:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
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Originally Posted by brucat
I have to stop watching that video.


Numerous statements of that nature is what kinda pisses me off about this thread. You're getting uncomfortable watching a video? Holy bleeding hearts Batman! We've all done similar things, and we've all risked our butts being dumb in different sports and lived to tell about it. I was a total wild butt on a motorcycle back in the day. Triple digit lane splitting while riding wheelies? AWESOME! Would I do it again? f*ck no.

So while some of you chastise their experience, and get all wishy washy at the sight of a trap line wrapped around a leg, I bet that chick is a little better at falling off the boat next time. Which doesn't mean squat, I still get wrapped up in stuff occasionally in a capsize, just like probably anybody else.


You don't learn anything unless you push yourself. Humans, like almost all animals, learn the best through pain. Whether physical, or emotional, we tend to avoid those experiences that make us uncomfortable once we have. Depending on the personality they'll come back for more, or they'll do something else. These guys didn't push themselves too far, (don't argue that with me, they lived), but they probably came close to the edge. I doubt that's even a reality for them yet, but same day it will be, and they might look back and go, "damn, I'm lucky I made it out of that", or.... They learn from it, and go "damn, that was fun, and I dragged a lot of useful info out of that.


There is nothing wrong with risking your life in the name of entertainment if you choose to do so. If you're not of the adrenaline junky type and you don't want to drowned, either grow gills or stay off the water. Don't want to freeze to death in a crevasse, don't climb mountains. Don't want to go "SPLAT" when you hit the ground at 300mph, don't jump out of airplanes. Don't want to get ripped in half by a telephone pole, don't crash a motorcycle at a high rate of speed. It ain't rocket surgery.


I'm boatless.
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248156
05/11/12 10:41 AM
05/11/12 10:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Get over yourself, you obviously missed my last (long) post on the last page.

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 05/11/12 10:41 AM.
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: brucat] #248157
05/11/12 10:45 AM
05/11/12 10:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
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Originally Posted by brucat
Get over yourself, you obviously missed my last (long) post on the last page.

Mike


Screw you Mike. you're not the only one whining like a bitch on this.


I'm boatless.
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248160
05/11/12 11:05 AM
05/11/12 11:05 AM
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So eloquent, as always Karl...

I may not be the only one discussing it, but you did aim your last barb directly at me by quoting my post.

Mike

Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248161
05/11/12 11:13 AM
05/11/12 11:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Eloquence is for Shakespeare, Plato, and Thoreau.

Yours was the easiest quote.

Here's a question for you Mike. Would you rather have returned to the beach that day, and have no idea what would've happened, and what you would have gleaned from that experience? Or would you have done it again?

I bet it was one of those defining moments for you.


I'm boatless.
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248162
05/11/12 11:27 AM
05/11/12 11:27 AM
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Posts: 3,969
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Well, we're a little different, and that's OK...

Yes, I really wish I would have gotten back to shore on that day without being stuck out overnight and losing a beautiful boat in the process.

While you are correct that I probably wouldn't have as quickly learned how important a wetsuit and VHF are, I think there are much better ways to learn what I did that night...

Mike

Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: Jake] #248164
05/11/12 11:35 AM
05/11/12 11:35 AM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by MN3
Originally Posted by JJ_
I don't understand why race organizers didn't bail...

I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?


Gusts to 30 or better.


wow the lack of white-caps and big breaking waves made me think much less...

Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248165
05/11/12 11:38 AM
05/11/12 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 71
South Florida
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Thats because it was on Biscayne Bay which is very protected.


After all, its not easy, banging your head against some mad buggers wall.
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: ] #248169
05/11/12 11:50 AM
05/11/12 11:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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tampa, fl
Originally Posted by MN3
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by MN3
Originally Posted by JJ_
I don't understand why race organizers didn't bail...

I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?


Gusts to 30 or better.


wow the lack of white-caps and big breaking waves made me think much less...


I have spoken with several people who did the race this year on a wide range of different boat. Breeze of 30+ was the concensus.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248171
05/11/12 11:54 AM
05/11/12 11:54 AM
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Sure would be nice to have instrument (buoy) data...

Mike

Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: Karl_Brogger] #248172
05/11/12 01:02 PM
05/11/12 01:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
JJ_ Offline
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Quote
There is nothing wrong with risking your life in the name of entertainment if you choose to do so.
Classic. Sounds like a hockey match.

Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: RickWhite] #248176
05/11/12 03:58 PM
05/11/12 03:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Hey, sky divers do it every time they jump out of a perfectly good airplane!

Oh, and they pay a lot of money to jump out of that airplane!

But hey, what could go wrong...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpTXniXQe-Q


Blade F16
#777
Re: Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race [Re: Karl_Brogger] #248183
05/11/12 06:01 PM
05/11/12 06:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by brucat
I have to stop watching that video.


Numerous statements of that nature is what kinda pisses me off about this thread. You're getting uncomfortable watching a video? Holy bleeding hearts Batman! We've all done similar things, and we've all risked our butts being dumb in different sports and lived to tell about it. I was a total wild butt on a motorcycle back in the day. Triple digit lane splitting while riding wheelies? AWESOME! Would I do it again? f*ck no.

So while some of you chastise their experience, and get all wishy washy at the sight of a trap line wrapped around a leg, I bet that chick is a little better at falling off the boat next time. Which doesn't mean squat, I still get wrapped up in stuff occasionally in a capsize, just like probably anybody else.


You don't learn anything unless you push yourself. Humans, like almost all animals, learn the best through pain. Whether physical, or emotional, we tend to avoid those experiences that make us uncomfortable once we have. Depending on the personality they'll come back for more, or they'll do something else. These guys didn't push themselves too far, (don't argue that with me, they lived), but they probably came close to the edge. I doubt that's even a reality for them yet, but same day it will be, and they might look back and go, "damn, I'm lucky I made it out of that", or.... They learn from it, and go "damn, that was fun, and I dragged a lot of useful info out of that.


There is nothing wrong with risking your life in the name of entertainment if you choose to do so. If you're not of the adrenaline junky type and you don't want to drowned, either grow gills or stay off the water. Don't want to freeze to death in a crevasse, don't climb mountains. Don't want to go "SPLAT" when you hit the ground at 300mph, don't jump out of airplanes. Don't want to get ripped in half by a telephone pole, don't crash a motorcycle at a high rate of speed. It ain't rocket surgery.


The most sensible post in this thread and it came from K2/ Booger , who'da thunk it.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
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