Announcements
New Discussions
going downhill with my body leads to cat adaption
by northsea junkie. 03/12/20 08:13 AM
The media IS the Democraptic party!
by H17cat. 03/04/20 06:33 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Quick release trap harness #254789
11/16/12 05:38 AM
11/16/12 05:38 AM

M
Mac m OP
Unregistered
Mac m OP
Unregistered
M



Anyone have any experience they can share with using quick releases on their trap harnesses? Had a scary experience last weekend where my girlfriend 's harness hooked the downhaul lines of all things as she slid down the tramp when we capsized. When the settled on its side she was suspended in the air and eventually dragged the mast down until the boat turtled with her under it. Thanks to the excellent volunteers at the F16 National's event I had help almost I instantly and was able to free her seconds after going under, but scary nonetheless.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

. We both have knives that came with our harnesses that would have cut the line, but would be ineffective on ss wire. I found these quick release spreaders on APSLTD. Anyone used them? I'd like to hear some discussion, talked to a few people afterwards and have heard some similar stories and even heard of a couple deaths.

[Linked Image]


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254790
11/16/12 06:23 AM
11/16/12 06:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254791
11/16/12 06:32 AM
11/16/12 06:32 AM

M
Mac m OP
Unregistered
Mac m OP
Unregistered
M



Do you use that system? Seems like it would be difficult to engage when going out?

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254792
11/16/12 07:10 AM
11/16/12 07:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Magic Marine makes a quick release spreaderbar, I used to have the previous model and it worked pretty well.
Eventually I took it of because it got in the way of the chickenwire cleats.

[Linked Image] http://www.magicmarine.com/products/Racing_Hardware/Harnesses/MARINE_QUICK_RELEASE_SPREADER

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254795
11/16/12 07:45 AM
11/16/12 07:45 AM

M
Mac m OP
Unregistered
Mac m OP
Unregistered
M



That might be what I need especially since we have MM harnesses

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254801
11/16/12 08:59 AM
11/16/12 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Yes, I wouldn't call it difficult but it does take some getting use to. The (standing end?) uses a ball and there are a couple of different styles.

I've caught the standard hook on everything imaginable. This system has the additional benefit of not poking holes or dents in the hull when I'm scrampling back onboard after a pitch pole. And it seems to stay hooked a little better than the standard system.

Last edited by pgp; 11/16/12 08:59 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254802
11/16/12 09:21 AM
11/16/12 09:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I've got several different varieties of quick release harnesses and none of them work reliably over time. I do maintain them (cleaning, greasing, etc.). I've got one like the one you picture that has some detent keeper balls and I think that's probably the best type...although, on mine, the detents are too deep and it too has a hard time unlocking if it's loaded up. I've used the pin type with a retainer clip and they're terrible for corroding and even in good shape, if you try to release the hook with a side load on it, they don't like to come out.

A good safety knife is a good idea too. I like the kinds with the replaceable razor blades like this (as long as you can find a good sheath):

http://www.meltontackle.com/products/zak-s-safety-knife.html


Jake Kohl
Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: Jake] #254809
11/16/12 09:49 AM
11/16/12 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
old hand
carlbohannon  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
I agree with Jake. I have several and I bet that if I checked them today, only 2 would work. The 2 that would work, have the hook pinned in place. These are simple pins, no QR or detent balls. On one, the top of the pin has Velcro over it and on the other the pin is slightly bent with the ring at the top held out of the way with 1/8 bungee. The last one is a older, modified version of the Magic Marine in this post.


Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254813
11/16/12 10:56 AM
11/16/12 10:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
My experience is that every one of the quick release versions I have tried has either not released under load (pin type), or released unexpectedly (button type).

I also tried the ball/socket model, but could not get used to the setup. I was never sure if I was locked in.

Until ISAF comes up with a standard definition of "Quick Release" that the companies can design to, then no one is going to invest the resources to develop a good working model.

With that being said, and I am biased here, the Zhik trap harness with the velcro flaps on the side make it very easy to get get out of your harness when trapped. Just reach down, blow the velcro and you are out of the harness. We have several documented cases of 18ft skiff sailors being trapped under their boats, and were able to successfully blow the velcro flaps and swim out from under the boats.

However, If you want to try out a RWO quick release spreader bar, I have a couple I'll loan you.

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254815
11/16/12 11:25 AM
11/16/12 11:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
O
orphan Offline
enthusiast
orphan  Offline
enthusiast
O

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
I have an MM quick release bar I you want it. PM me if you are interested.

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: orphan] #254828
11/16/12 03:10 PM
11/16/12 03:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Jake, can you design me one with explosive bolts?


Jay

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254832
11/16/12 03:17 PM
11/16/12 03:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 930
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
old hand
samc99us  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 930
Solomon's Island, MD
Do you really want to be wearing a bomb that close to the boys?


Scorpion F18
Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: samc99us] #254833
11/16/12 03:21 PM
11/16/12 03:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
The trap hook is no where near Stank's freezer.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ksurfer2] #254840
11/16/12 04:56 PM
11/16/12 04:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Ha! I was going to ask if Sam was married or not...


Jay

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254851
11/17/12 03:51 AM
11/17/12 03:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 522
Petten Netherlands
N
northsea junkie Offline
addict
northsea junkie  Offline
addict
N

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 522
Petten Netherlands
I was really shocked seeing the opening pictures of this thread and reading Mac's story.

This is one of the sailors nightmares.

It reminds me on the small gap between between having a good and relaxed time on the water and being in total distress. It can happen in seconds or even a split second.

But it also belongs to the cat-sport. In the years I myself have add so many safety systems to my catamaran that I find it now and then a bit ridiculous.
But this occasion inspires me to maintain this filosophy.

By the way what did "trapped in downhaul lines" excatly mean? Will a normal V-shaped windsurf hook prevent this?



ronald (with a 30 cm legknife, which can also be trapped under my net-tramp!)


ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254855
11/17/12 06:57 AM
11/17/12 06:57 AM

M
Mac m OP
Unregistered
Mac m OP
Unregistered
M



Her harness hook caught on the dyneema downhaul lines that run up the side of the mast thought the grommet on the sail and back down the other side of the mast. I couldn't pull the picture off of the AHPC site, but copied the link to it. The picture is on page 31

http://www.ahpc.com.au/images/pdf/VIPER%20Owner's%20Manual.pdf

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254860
11/17/12 10:05 AM
11/17/12 10:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 522
Petten Netherlands
N
northsea junkie Offline
addict
northsea junkie  Offline
addict
N

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 522
Petten Netherlands
Mac,

Probably she was caught by several lines together under the hook. That and the fact that these lines are normally under great tension explains everything. A V-hook will only help a little bit more in this situation.

The main problem in this kind of situations is panique!

If she was for instance caught sitting upon the tramp during shifting from site to site, she would have had normally no problem with shifting the ropes free from her hook.
But seeking under water the ropes which you cannot see and then shifting them from the hook in the right direction is another matter!!!
Especially when when you think you are drowning.

Only a real marine training would help her with this.

I hope sincerly that the fear will not pin down in her mind. It is important that she goes sailing again as soon as possible!

All the best.

ronald


ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254863
11/17/12 12:40 PM
11/17/12 12:40 PM

M
Mac m OP
Unregistered
Mac m OP
Unregistered
M



I think it scared me more than her. I told the chase boat we were done for the day, but she insisted we continue!

Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: ] #254869
11/17/12 03:53 PM
11/17/12 03:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Ronald is right. panic is your worst enemy.

I've gotten wrapped up in stuff going over, and had a boat start to come over on me, being cool and keeping your head about you is the key.

The other is knowing how to crash, either picking where you are going to go sliding through, or grabbing onto something so you don't go whistling through a mess of lines is important and it comes with experience. I don't know the details, but I can imagine if she got hooked on that stuff, she could have just as easily planted a foot against the mast, which I've done plenty of times myself. The other thing I do is cling onto the hull like a spider monkey. Doesn't help if you're on the wire, but sitting on the boat it usually works. Then you just slide down the underside of the boat to the hull thats in the water.


I'm boatless.
Re: Quick release trap harness [Re: Karl_Brogger] #254953
11/19/12 01:53 PM
11/19/12 01:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I was hoping that the transition from sideways to turtle was long enough for both of you to grasp the situation and avoid too much panic... It looked like she was working on the problem in a few of those photos before it went completely turtle. Probably just needed a good foothold somewhere to lift the hook off those lines...

I got tangled in something (likely the spin sheet or downhaul which was tied to the shroud) as Rob's Wildcat gybed on top of me and flipped which didn't give me as much time to react as the "normal" flips that I'm used to.

Definitely got the blood moving when all I felt over my head was hull, my harness was caught, and I didn't have a lot of air in my lungs.

Thankfully, an arm sweep of the hook to clear the line and a push to get my PFD clear of the shroud and I was good.


Jay


Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 38 guests, and 360 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
4alexha, Andrew_K, Maricatsailor78, gokenny, Five_Generations
8016 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
H17cat 1
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,375
Posts266,977
Members8,016
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1