| Carbon stick, would you do it? #255552 12/07/12 09:27 AM 12/07/12 09:27 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger OP
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | I'm thinking about buying a carbon mast. Pro's? Con's?
Main reason being I can't consistently right an aluminum stick. It depends on the mast, some I can, some I can't. Even when I can, I'm borderline.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255555 12/07/12 09:45 AM 12/07/12 09:45 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | I'm thinking about buying a carbon mast. Pro's? Con's?
Main reason being I can't consistently right an aluminum stick. It depends on the mast, some I can, some I can't. Even when I can, I'm borderline. If it's built properly with bend characteristics that have been proven in the A-cat fleet and cost isn't an issue, you gotta do it. Con: it will bite into your rum budget
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255556 12/07/12 10:16 AM 12/07/12 10:16 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger OP
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | I was thinking about talking to Hall. I'm braced for the $7k price tag.
Depends how badly I get slaughtered on taxes this year too. I might be flat broke in a few months.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255558 12/07/12 11:05 AM 12/07/12 11:05 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger OP
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | Yeah, that's a concern as well. I'd have to buy two. Probably more like four. I'm sure the first couple will be a mistake, and will have to be tweaked.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255563 12/07/12 01:41 PM 12/07/12 01:41 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | I was thinking about talking to Hall. I'm braced for the $7k price tag.
Depends how badly I get slaughtered on taxes this year too. I might be flat broke in a few months. Being on a tight budget isn't really conducive to R&D. Any reason you need it other than you not being fat enough to right the boat? I would think gaining a few pounds would be a lot cheaper than a $7,000+ mast/sail combo?
Jay
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255567 12/07/12 04:05 PM 12/07/12 04:05 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger OP
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | If there's a performance gain, I don't really care about the cost. (within reason, I'm not willing to blow $20k on a rig) Work has been crazy, some of my investments is rockin... Its time to play
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#255569 12/07/12 04:12 PM 12/07/12 04:12 PM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL tback
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Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL | Any reason you need it other than you not being fat enough to right the boat?
Stepping the mast? Easier on your back?
USA 777
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255602 12/09/12 03:39 PM 12/09/12 03:39 PM |
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD samc99us
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Posts: 932 Solomon's Island, MD | Do the F16 carbon masts weigh less than the aluminum rigs? I thought they have to weigh a minimum of 6kg and have the same mast tip weight? Not sure that helps with the original problem of righting the boat single handed?
Scorpion F18
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255606 12/09/12 06:02 PM 12/09/12 06:02 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger OP
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | That's assuming the aluminum stick is at tip weight. Much easier to add corrector weight than figure out how to make it lighter.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#255612 12/10/12 07:04 AM 12/10/12 07:04 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 893 waynemarlow
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Posts: 893 | Most of the carbon sticks are underweight at the tip by some way. Most of the Uni sailors here in the UK have a carbon stick as most of the boats came with them from new ( Stealth ) and have found them extremely robust and most of all, a cinch to raise the mast on your own.
To get around the F16 tip weight, we simply fit a lead corrector weight if we attend a nationals or such like, ( so far in the UK that law has been ignored and to date we haven't had to fit the weights, very sensible in my opinion )and whilst club and pleasure sailing, enjoy the benefits of the carbon stick.
But even at full class tip weight, you should be able to right the boat if you follow all the basic principals, release the downhaul, centre the mast rotator, release the main sheet, turn the sail at right angles to the wind to get lift from the sail ( if you have to paddle the boat into the right position ), get your body almost touching the water ( probably the most common error )and then once it begins to right, use your arms to pull the boat over from actually being in the water.
Fully sealing the mast is also a basic prequisite and any water entry into the mast will make life difficult. My own mast for example will simply sit on the waters surface for as long as I need to organise myself.
The only time I have seen the light weights really struggle is if the wind completely dies and the flat top of the sail sort of glues itself to the water ( stiction ) and you really need to almost shake the mast to be able to right the boat. | | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#258333 03/15/13 07:54 AM 03/15/13 07:54 AM |
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 22 RParentsail
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Posts: 22 | Is Matt McDonald the only one making carbon masts for the F16 class right now? I'm interested in making the boat lighter too since sailing a Viper that's a good 50lbs overweight the class minimum has its disadvantages when it comes to racing against Matt's carbon boats.
"Nothing that is worth knowing can be taught." ~Oscar Wilde RPSailing.blogspot.com
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#258344 03/15/13 05:42 PM 03/15/13 05:42 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger OP
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Posts: 4,118 Northfield Mn | Only one in the USA that I know of. There's a couple of options in Europe, but I can't think of the names.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: Carbon stick, would you do it?
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#258810 04/08/13 01:40 PM 04/08/13 01:40 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 425 Toledo, Ohio (western end of ... Mike Fahle
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Posts: 425 Toledo, Ohio (western end of ... | I purchased a mast from Matt McDonald today after he sent me this information yesterday. He said it was O.K. to share this on the forum. I will be traveling from Toledo, Ohio to get the mast next month and would be willing to bring more back with me from Florida for some gas money.
Matt wrote: The most obvious difference in the aluminum versus the carbon sticks is in setting up the boat (stepping the mast). With you’re A class experience you understand. If righting the boat is an issue, then the carbon makes a difference here too. I am 5-7 and typically around 145-150 lbs. I can right the F16 with an aluminum stick solo only if it is relatively windy. I can right the boat solo with the carbon stick all the time. I feel we have less pitch in the boat with the carbon mast, and a bit more power off the wind. The F16 class when they set up their rules wanted to allow carbon masts. They put a minimum tip weight provision in the mast requirements though so that a super light high mod carbon stick would not start showing up that forced everyone racing to go out and get a carbon stick if they wanted to race competitively. As such the carbon sticks we make are not as light as they could be, but this hopefully helps with having added material, so that they are not as prone to busting as some of the latest versions of A class masts seem to be experiencing. There was a huge variation between the batches of aluminum masts we have bought over the years. You end up with something in the neighborhood of 6-8 pounds savings going with a carbon over the aluminum.
Our carbon shape is very similar to the shape used by most of the A class builders, which is also very similar to the current aluminum superwing section used on the F16s. (62 X 154mm)
We have been doing a lot of work on bends for this section. We have been working with the bendy masts along the same lines as the A class. Trying to maximize the bend fore and aft while keeping a stiffer side to side bend profile. This allows you to use a fuller main sail and to get a lot more range out of the set up. The stiffer side wall then helps you keep power in the sail off wind with the spin.
I have a couple of masts available now.
Last edited by Mike Fahle; 04/08/13 01:43 PM.
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