| Better Fact Check this one..... #258665 04/02/13 10:30 AM 04/02/13 10:30 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W Todd_Sails OP
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Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W | Read this short article until the end please!
The Washington Post The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen, Norway Reports from fishermen, seal hunters, and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by more inches of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable. * * * * * * * * * I apologize, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - over 90 years ago. ***************** Damn that pesky global warming.......................
F-18 Infusion #626- SOLD it!
'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#258680 04/02/13 01:09 PM 04/02/13 01:09 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | interesting to note from NPR (not exactly your climate skeptic)... sea ice melt will not change sea levels, as the ice has already displaced its mass in the ocean. Glacier and sheet ice over land might...
not that I want to hash this all over again on a SAILING forum...
Jay
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#258687 04/02/13 07:01 PM 04/02/13 07:01 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | interesting to note from NPR (not exactly your climate skeptic)... sea ice melt will not change sea levels, as the ice has already displaced its mass in the ocean. Glacier and sheet ice over land might...
not that I want to hash this all over again on a SAILING forum... The devil is in the details - yes, melting "sea ice" will not change sea levels as the ice is floating and is displacing it's weight in water. However, I think some of the detail is getting lost in this translation because there is more than just "sea ice" out there. I'm betting another 10 minutes of that episode would have probably gotten around to this part of the subject. After hearing some reports of a 30 foot sea level rise a couple of years ago, I too was skeptical so I did some research and math on my own. What I found is that even if you just consider Antarctica, where most of the ice is on a continental land mass, that a 30 foot sea level rise is incredibly EASY to hit if only a small part of Antarctica melted. This ignores Greenland, the arctic, and many other land based masses of ice. It's astonishing but true. If Greenland were to all melt, the oceans would rise 20 feet. If Antarctica were to all melt, the oceans would rise 200 feet. We're talking about a LOT of ice out there and it's not melting "tomorrow". The main estimates on future ocean levels if the current melt rates continue is between 20 and 40 inches by 2100.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Todd_Sails]
#258689 04/02/13 07:55 PM 04/02/13 07:55 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | It's kinda fun to watch everyone gradually convert to the idea that "hey, things are actually getting warmer". It's only taken about 10 years. Todd, you are of a withering few, my friend. While it may be entertaining to point at the drastic cold snaps and make a snarky comment about how it ironically relates to "warming", the truth is that these are due largely to instability in the weather driven by incredibly slight changes in ocean currents and other variables. Giant snow event!? "Aaaaa! - Global warming is a farce!" Yet, it's moisture in the atmosphere (from extra warmth at various layers in the ocean surface and atmosphere) that creates snow. You'll get there eventually - hang in there.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Jake]
#258690 04/02/13 09:38 PM 04/02/13 09:38 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... hobie1616
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Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... | Todd may not be onboard with global warming/global climate change but he is totally convinced the lizard people control our societies.
From Public Policy Polling
- 37% of voters believe global warming is a hoax, 51% do not. Republicans say global warming is a hoax by a 58-25 margin, Democrats disagree 11-77, and Independents are more split at 41-51. 61% of Romney voters believe global warming is a hoax
- 4% of voters say they believe “lizard people” control our societies by gaining political power
- 28% of voters believe secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government, or New World Order. A plurality of Romney voters (38%) believe in the New World Order compared to 35% who don’t
- 15% of voters say the government or the media adds mind-controlling technology to TV broadcast signals
- 5% believe exhaust seen in the sky behind airplanes is actually chemicals sprayed by the government for sinister reasons
US Sail Level 2 Instructor US Sail Level 3 Coach | | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Jake]
#258700 04/03/13 10:55 AM 04/03/13 10:55 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | I would point out that I've always believed the climate changes. It's been doing so for millions of years and will continue well after humanity's demise.
I'm still not sure (1) how much of that (as a % of total) is "our" fault and (2) how much of the climate we can "control"
My contribution to the green movement is primarily through conservation. Because I'm too much of a cheapskate to pay for wasted energy (like leaving the lights on, driving a gas guzzler, etc)
Jay
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#258703 04/03/13 11:23 AM 04/03/13 11:23 AM |
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 774 Greenville SC bacho
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Posts: 774 Greenville SC | I would point out that I've always believed the climate changes. It's been doing so for millions of years and will continue well after humanity's demise.
I'm still not sure (1) how much of that (as a % of total) is "our" fault and (2) how much of the climate we can "control"
My contribution to the green movement is primarily through conservation. Because I'm too much of a cheapskate to pay for wasted energy (like leaving the lights on, driving a gas guzzler, etc) X2, I believe things change in cycles and I am not sure humans can contribute much towards the change in either direction. Plenty of instances in recorded history where places were once warmer (and cooler) than they are now. | | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Todd_Sails]
#258704 04/03/13 11:55 AM 04/03/13 11:55 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Well, I can tell you I have seen the effects of humans on the atmosphere, every time I descend into LAX or SAN, there is a huge brown layer of smog you come into at about 5000', give or take a few, depending on temps and surface winds. It has gotten better in the past 20 years, due to the emission controls put on the cars, and better fuel blends, etc. but it's still there.
And then there's China and India, you should see some of the smog they generate! It makes the worst day in LA look like a spring morning in the alps!
Now, compare that to what Mother Nature throws up into the atmosphere all by herself, in the way of volcanic ash and forest fire smoke, and the big red dust storms coming off the African coast, well, I'd call it a draw.
BUT...one thing is certain, we humans can at least try to do something about it, in the way of conservation and/or emissions reductions. Will it change anything, long term?
Who knows, but at least we could try to clean up after ourselves. It couldn't hurt.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Todd_Sails]
#258712 04/03/13 12:55 PM 04/03/13 12:55 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | The environment is a commie plot.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Todd_Sails]
#258715 04/03/13 01:31 PM 04/03/13 01:31 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | Where is the environment anyway? The yucca pen? Maybe Cecil Webb?
Last edited by pgp; 04/03/13 01:31 PM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Timbo]
#258719 04/03/13 03:26 PM 04/03/13 03:26 PM |
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 402 Punta Gorda, FL jkkartz1
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Posts: 402 Punta Gorda, FL | Well, I can tell you I have seen the effects of humans on the atmosphere, every time I descend into LAX or SAN, there is a huge brown layer of smog you come into at about 5000', give or take a few, depending on temps and surface winds. It has gotten better in the past 20 years, due to the emission controls put on the cars, and better fuel blends, etc. but it's still there.
And then there's China and India, you should see some of the smog they generate! It makes the worst day in LA look like a spring morning in the alps!
Now, compare that to what Mother Nature throws up into the atmosphere all by herself, in the way of volcanic ash and forest fire smoke, and the big red dust storms coming off the African coast, well, I'd call it a draw.
BUT...one thing is certain, we humans can at least try to do something about it, in the way of conservation and/or emissions reductions. Will it change anything, long term?
Who knows, but at least we could try to clean up after ourselves. It couldn't hurt. Watch the Chinese Grand Prix this weekend. You'll see the air. | | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Todd_Sails]
#258720 04/03/13 03:28 PM 04/03/13 03:28 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | Ah, Grasshopper! Cape Coral (by area the 2nd largest city in the state) started an extensive water, sewer, reclaimed water program years ago. I've had all three for well over 10 years.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: pgp]
#258722 04/03/13 03:57 PM 04/03/13 03:57 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | Marco Island had the same issue (septic causing fecal coliform blooms in the waterways). I think they just finished up a huge sewer project that cost a go-zillion dollars, but maybe it will help in the long run.
I recall Tampa Bay used to be pretty dang ugly in the 60s, but has since cleaned up quite nicely.
Jay
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: hobie1616]
#258748 04/05/13 08:05 AM 04/05/13 08:05 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | so if we stopped generating electricity and using petrol, how much could we stop or reverse?
I use +/- 700 KwH per month at the house (no heating oil) and my car gets 40 mpg on low octane gas.
I travel locally a lot (radius 100 miles, average trip 25 miles). I could bike perhaps, but would never cover my territory even if I were doped up like Lance.
Jay
| | | Re: Better Fact Check this one.....
[Re: Todd_Sails]
#258752 04/05/13 09:58 AM 04/05/13 09:58 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | The only estimate I've read is that 2% of the increase in green house gases is directly attributable to human influence.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
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