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Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: bacho] #260473
06/18/13 06:26 AM
06/18/13 06:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
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Melbourne, Australia
Diesels do produce more emission than petrol per litres burnt however this is offset by the better fuel economy of diesel engines. Diesels also typically have forced induction (turbos) and whilst not accelerating as quick as a simular petrol unit with forced induction, has more low down torque giving V8 type grunt which is great for towing or off-roading. Diesel (and the snorkel smile ) are ideal for water crossings. Another tick for off-roading. In Australia, when you head off into remote areas, you will be hard pressed finding a gas station that sells petrol. No problem with diesel.

Americans also are hooked on their big cube engines. I am too for a play car, but for day to day driving and long distance touring which my VW is being built for, then small capacity turbo diesels are the go.

My VW Amarok would be considered small to most Americans (don’t want it too big for off-roading in the bush) and most will laugh at the little 2 litre twin turbo engine. It may not be a race car but it will give me combined city / highway driving off 7.8 litres/100 km = 30.1557158 miles/gallon(US). On the highway, I can get down to an approximate average of 6 litres/100 km = 39.2024306 miles/gallon(US). I also have a VW Golf 2 litre single turbo which gives me 4.4 litres/100 km = 53.4578598 miles/gallon(US)

BTW, The Amarok is built in Argentina and I believe they have plans to sell it in Canada. No plans for the US though as they believe they will not get the sales to justify it.

Also, in Australia a diesel vehicle will only add an extra 2.5k to a vehicle.


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #260474
06/18/13 06:46 AM
06/18/13 06:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline OP
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bacho  Offline OP
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Greenville SC
I think we are a long ways from having vehicles like that. I am still thinking that most Americans still are not terribly concerned with MPG and would rather just complain about fuel prices. The ones that want to be "Green" have to have a Prius or other hybrid. Diesel is not on the radar.

My mom owns a 2001 Jetta Diesel and a 2007 Prius, the Jetta goes 15 miles further for each gallon of fuel consumed her her driving.

Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: bacho] #260475
06/18/13 07:04 AM
06/18/13 07:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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The problem with most hybrids is that you cannot tow anything with it which makes them useless for most sailors.

Diesels are very popular in Europe, especially for those that drive more than 30k/KMs a year.
My Renault stationwagon uses about 5,5L for every 100KMs and 10L when towing a cat.

The amount of road tax you pay is determined by a so called Energy Label which is used to stimulate both producers and consumers to drive cars with smaller CO2 footprints:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label#Cars

Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #260476
06/18/13 07:19 AM
06/18/13 07:19 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by Tornado_ALIVE

BTW, The Amarok is built in Argentina and I believe they have plans to sell it in Canada. No plans for the US though as they believe they will not get the sales to justify it.



Probably would be subject to the Chicken Tax!

Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: bacho] #260477
06/18/13 08:14 AM
06/18/13 08:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
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I looked into importing a Toyota Hi-Lux turbo diesel pickup from Argentina. It seems that our govt has an outrageous import duty on small light-duty diesel pickups. I could import a motorcycle or gas car for a 3-5% import duty, but a diesel light duty truck is 35% (applies to new and used vehicles). If the US automakers don't want to build one, they make sure we can't import one...

Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: mikekrantz] #260481
06/18/13 08:58 AM
06/18/13 08:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Naples, FL
In a barrel (42gal) of crude you need to divide it into separate parts. These parts are roughly:

Naphta and other condensates that are liquid. 2gal
Kerosene, where most is jet-fuel 4gal
Unleaded gasoline 20gal
Diesel fuel and heating/furnace oil 10gal
Engine oil .5gal
Gear oil .5gal
Grease .5gal
Tar/asphalt 1gal

Given these approximate fractions alone, I can see why refineries wish to sell more gasoline than diesel. what else would they do with it if everyone ran diesel engines?



On the other hand, wikipedia has a comparison of energy content of various fuels as they related to 1 gallon of unleaded gas.

For instance, you get the same energy from 0.88 gallons of Diesel as you do from 1 gallon of unleaded gas, so I would figure you'll get better mileage from a diesel just based on energy comparison alone.

It takes 1.39 gallons of E85 blend to get teh energy equivalent of 1 gallon of unleaded gas BTW - which is why some people note crappy MPG when using blended fuel.

And yes, the "Bigger is better" concept seems firmly ingrained in the American psyche despite practical experience to the contrary.

And do those European vehicles meet all the safety standards for US market? Or are we stuck along the same lines as PFDs and the CE vs. USCG requirements?


Jay

Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: bacho] #260483
06/18/13 09:07 AM
06/18/13 09:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific.â€...
hobie1616 Offline
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“an island in the Pacific.â€...
Originally Posted by bacho
I am still thinking that most Americans still are not terribly concerned with MPG and would rather just complain about fuel prices.

My Roketa scooter gets 128 mpg and will cruise at 35 mph all day.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: mikekrantz] #260486
06/18/13 10:51 AM
06/18/13 10:51 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
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Originally Posted by mikekrantz
I looked into importing a Toyota Hi-Lux turbo diesel pickup from Argentina. It seems that our govt has an outrageous import duty on small light-duty diesel pickups. I could import a motorcycle or gas car for a 3-5% import duty, but a diesel light duty truck is 35% (applies to new and used vehicles). If the US automakers don't want to build one, they make sure we can't import one...


Just not on diesel but on all... it is called the Chicken Tax.. LBJ put it into place.

A few years back me and friend; who use to have a van conversion business, were looking to bring in the Volkswagen T-5 Transporter and convert them to Westfalia campers. We felt there is a market for this as Sportmobile is doing well, and there are a bunch of Baby Boomers looking to relive the good years. VW Norte Merica doesn’t feel the numbers are there to justify it, but we felt it could be a great cottage business.

In our doing our due diligence here is what we found out:

Because this would be new vehicle to the US market it would need to go through crash and roll testing. I believe it was Germans…. more specifically Mercedes Benz who developed this testing back in the late 50’s. And they have already been tested in Germany to meet their standards which I feel are better that ours. But, they need to be tested here and this was at the cost of a few sacrificial vans which we would have to pay for.

Secondly it would need to pass the emissions stuff. We felt this wasn’t going to be a problem due to these vans using the same “drive trans” as some of the current VW vehicles in the US… But, it would need to get through the California standards and the required an additional battle with getting this through CARB… In starting this conversation, let’s just say I was better off talking to the wall.

Thirdly, because we were looking at bringing in the “cans” as they call them in the trade, this was considered a light duty truck and was subject to a large tariff ala Chicken Tax which put an additional 20 plus percent to the cost. We could have brought in passenger version, which is what Ford is doing with the Ford Transit Connect, dumped the interior and gone from there, but why! We are converting these to passenger use anyway…

But wait, that’s not all…. There is also liability insurance that added about $3K to each vehicle.

In the end once converted we would need to sell them for $95K plus and turn them in 18 months to break even. That price point is well addressed with the glut of RV’s currently out there, and even though there was the novelty of the VW Camper with a few modern accoutrements like, power seats, solar, hot water, and satellite tv/internet the numbers just didn’t work.

Here you had two guys looking to start a business to realize a dream and got a first class beat down by government regulations… Sometime I see why these Tea Party people are bat shite crazy

Last edited by Ventucky Red; 06/18/13 10:55 AM.
Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: Ventucky Red] #260490
06/18/13 12:03 PM
06/18/13 12:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
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Houston



Last edited by carlbohannon; 06/19/13 08:35 AM.
Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: mikekrantz] #260491
06/18/13 12:21 PM
06/18/13 12:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline OP
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Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by mikekrantz
I looked into importing a Toyota Hi-Lux turbo diesel pickup from Argentina. It seems that our govt has an outrageous import duty on small light-duty diesel pickups. I could import a motorcycle or gas car for a 3-5% import duty, but a diesel light duty truck is 35% (applies to new and used vehicles). If the US automakers don't want to build one, they make sure we can't import one...


How old/ new were you looking? I have seen some grey market alternatives over the years.

Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: carlbohannon] #260492
06/18/13 02:37 PM
06/18/13 02:37 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Ventucky Red  Offline
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
Originally Posted by carlbohannon
IYou may see that VW T5 (or 6 or 7) in 2020.


You may be right as GM and Ford may get tired of playing the little game they need to do to circumvent this or VW sets up manufacturing here to build the vehicles..

Originally Posted by bacho

How old/ new were you looking? I have seen some grey market alternatives over the years.


Can't speak from where you are, but here is the Peoples Socialist Republic of Kalifornicated you wouldn't be able to get it past the smog inspection...

That is unless of course you spent buckets of ducklets.. but as my dad always said.."there isn't a problem that can't be fixed with money."


Last edited by Ventucky Red; 06/18/13 02:42 PM.
Re: The ultimate beach cat truck [Re: bacho] #260504
06/19/13 08:18 AM
06/19/13 08:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Wouldn't call this a great beach truck, but when I got into the Hobie 18 in 1980, Mary and I trailed it with a VW Rabbit PU Diesel, with a cap.
Kept all our gear back there in the bed, and when at the site off-loaded the gear and slept in the back, with our Golden Retriever, Nugget. Good old days.
Not pulling a trailer we got 62 mile per gallon.
However, when pulling the boat I could only keep it in high gear with a tail-wind, or drafting a truck.
I first met Jim and Deb Fredericks at the Indiana State Hobie Championships at Eagle Lake, IN. When I heard they were from Port Clinton, OH (as were we) I asked if I draft him home.
It worked.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
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